|Feedback on argument with friend...||loki_1|
Jun 23, 2003 9:24 AM
|Had an argument yesterday with a friend that I have known for about 10 years. I'll tell it from my perspective but will try to accurately include his side of the story (although I admit that will be near impossible).
My friend (Dan) does a lot of volunteer work for his local swimclub (much of it unappreciated, complained about etc... can't please all the people all the time). I belong to a different club but agreed to help him out with the maintenance of a volleyball court as we play in a league together on it.
Dan calls at 9:00am asking if I am available to help him out that morning. I agree. He tells me he is going to Home Depot to rent a tiller and to meet him at the club at 10:30.
10:35 I show up at the club. Dan is not there.
11:15 A friend of ours, Bill, shows up to help out. I call Dan on his cell phone, no answer.
Bill and I chat for a while, go down to the court to survey what needs to be done, etc. Try to call Dan again, still no answer.
About 12:15 Bill and I decide to leave, but drive by Dan's house (he lives less than a mile from the swimclub) to see if he is back from Home Depot. As I pull into his street Dan in standing at the end of his driveway talking to someone in a truck (I do not know who is in the truck). As I pull up I hear Dan telling them "Well, I gotta get this over to the swimclub." To which I reply (admittedly not one of my better moments) "Yeh, two hours ago, a55hole." I was really pissed off that this guy didnt think my time was important enough to let me know he was going to be late. So I left and went home to do everything else i need to get done.
10 minutes later Dan pulls up and gets out of his car, starts yelling at me. This one sided barrage lasted about ten minutes. The type of argument that you can't get a word in edgewise, but, to be fair to his side of the story: He ended up borrowing a tiller from someone, it didnt work so he had to work on the engine. He couldnt call because his hands were greasy and since he lives close to the club I should have known to go there. He also asked why didnt I leave a message on his voicemail (I figured he'd see the caller id and know that I called). My neighbors who witnessed (but could not hear everything) him were about to call the police. At one point he punched me (ok, more of a push-punch) in the chest. I replied to that by calmly telling him "Don't hit me". Seeing that I was dealing with someone out of control (and the fact that i graduated from 3rd grade a long time ago) I really didnt want to antagonize him with my point of view.
So, my question is, do i show up for the game on tuesday nite?
Actually, I know I should have handled myself better at his house, but dont feel that I am completely in the wrong here. Am I?
|Go to the game, give a short apology ...||PdxMark|
Jun 23, 2003 9:48 AM
|for the misunderstanding... In time you might be friends again.
And 2 lessons for next time: (1) a$$hole is not a nice greeting for a friend (2) give up on him after 20-30 minutes of waiting and you'll be less angry.
He was inconsiderate not to let you know he'd be late, you were at least as inconsiderate in your response.
|re: Feedback on argument with friend...||mohair_chair|
Jun 23, 2003 10:36 AM
|I think it was incredibly inconsiderate for him to leave you there for 2 hours, under the assumption that YOU would somehow contact HIM to find out what the story is. That's just stupid AND inconsiderate. Clearly he values his time more than he does yours.
You don't owe him an apology. The A-hole remark was a very poor choice of words, but he's obvlivious if he doesn't think he deserved it.
Go to the game. Pretend it is past history, wait for him to apologize, then you apologize for what you said, then go buy some beers and laugh about it. If he doesn't apologize first and you value your 10-year friendship, submit a no-fault apology, such as "man, that whole thing was pretty F'ed-up, wasn't it?" Then, of course, go buy some beers and laugh about it.
And next time, meet at his house if it's so close. It'll save you two hours.
|Ex-friend sounds like a real jerk||MR_GRUMPY|
Jun 23, 2003 11:26 AM
|How long would it have taken him to drive over to the club to let you know about the delay ? The phone excuse is pretty lame.|
|re: Maybe its time to distance yourself a bit..||jrm|
Jun 23, 2003 2:19 PM
|As 3rd grade as it may sound, when people ask me to do something then waist my time i will longer volunteer my time to them.|
|Two birds of the same feather||Starliner|
Jun 23, 2003 3:01 PM
|Both you guys operated in a "shoot first, ask questions later" mode. Your mistake was in not honoring the long friendship by giving him the benefit of the doubt before you shot your mouth off. His mistake was in taking your friendship for granted thinking it'd be OK to be inconsiderate of your time, and that it was your responsibility to fix it.
It sounds as if you have been able to take a step back and realize that you did have a part in the whole thing - that's a good first step. So now, give him the benefit of the doubt (that you didn't give him to begin with) and consider that he is similarly upset that you guys had a spat because he, like you, values the long standing friendship and wonders, like you, how to get things back on track.
Call him up, invite him for a beer. If things are as I think they are with him, you'll end up buddies again. If he is still pissed at you, then at least you've done your part to mend the fences. Life is too short to wallow in the mire.
|Do you have any real problems?||53T|
Jun 23, 2003 5:55 PM
|How old are you? How long until you die? Do you have a family? How is your health? How's the job going? When's the next round of layoffs? Any family in Iraq? Any skyscrapers fall on you lately?
Would you like to trade lives with me? I could live with your swim club issues.
|We all have problems||Starliner|
Jun 23, 2003 6:40 PM
|Cut the guy some slack, man. He wasn't looking to get into a pi$$ing contest, just some opinions on a situation that meant something to him at the moment.|
Jun 24, 2003 9:24 AM
|I'm not going to cut him some slack. Is this the kind of mental and emotional toughness you want the next generation to display when they are leading this country? If nobody points out the errors of their ways, we will have nobody qualified to tackle the real world problems.
The poster's preoccupation, even on a short term basis, with trivial matters of the heart in face of an entire world of real issues to ponder is not a natural condition of youth. It is a new phenomenon among 20-somethings and even 30-somethings. Young healthy men and women who should be building a better community are focusing on the social niceties required when tilling a volleyball court. This has got to stop.
Perhaps he wasn't looking to get into a pi$$ing contest, but he sure wouldn't have gotten into a tif with his homey if the two of them didn't have so much idle time on thier hands. Why don't they join the Peace Corps and build some volleyball courts in South America where they might keep one or two kids out of the cocaine trade. Between the two of them, they wasted about 8 man-hours in this one story alone. That's half a roof on Habitat for Humanity house, or about 2000 mailings at your favorite candidate's campain office, or weeks worth of homework in grad school.
Grow up, we need you.
|Can't disagree with what you said, but ...||Live Steam|
Jun 24, 2003 10:22 AM
|I did not pick up on anything that would give away the posters age. For all I know the guy is married with kids and leaving to join the Peace Corp wouldn't be prudent. The issues you brought up need to be further investigated in a new thread about accountability and personal responsibility from the youth of today, but both of these issues also come into play here.
While out on a short but sweet ride this morning (no rain here in NYC only sweltering temps now :O) I was thinking about this thread and my similar experiences with a few friends. Two in particular. Both are long time. It seems that my two "friends" and the character loki_1 has to deal with, lack personal accountability, humility and common sense.
Where my two friends are concerned, they both have always had a hard time with accepting fault and they both have had a hard time showing consideration for others - their time, their sensitivities, their feelings, their individual personal principles. Both would have treated the situation the same as Dan did. They would have projected the problem onto the other person (me). I accepted them both as they are, for a long time, but one day and obviously on seperate occasions, I let them know how I felt about how they treated me and others when the waters got rough. Sometimes they didn't handle themselves well when the waters weren't that rough too. They just would show their inconsiderate behavior toward others. I have dealt with one of them just recently, regarding mine and Christine's wedding. Too long to get into.
That is why I believe that loki_1 should tell Dan how his inconsiderate behavior effected him. How it made him feel. Either that or just chalk it up to experience. He now knows where he stands with dear ol' Dan and what to expect from him now.
|didnt realize i would be judged...||loki_1|
Jun 24, 2003 1:10 PM
|I can't take your comments personally because you dont know me or where i have been.
Do I act locally? Yes, but lets leave the judgements where they belong.
|didnt realize i would be judged...||53T|
Jun 24, 2003 5:00 PM
|"didnt realize i would be judged"
Now that's the funniest thing I've heard today!
Jun 25, 2003 12:18 PM
|I understood your original point but thought it was uncalled for in your response. If you had no feedback, no intelligent input then no response was necessary. Sounds like you just needed a forum to vent your frustrations and your own secret wars. If you felt it necessary to judge the guy, it would have been better to stick to the issue. You have a right to your opinion regardless of your questionable point of view. After reading your second posting I tried to see your point of view once again, however I can't seem to get my head that far up my a55.
The original posting portrayed a caring individual, who admitted his mistakes and was concerned with properly handling the situation. He asked for feedback. We have no idea of his life situation nor do we need to know in order to give feedback. That all said, your comments were unfair, unnecessary and derogatory and the more you post, the more you reveal yourself.
The details in the orig. were for purposes of illustration. As intelligent people reading it, we know it has nothing to do with swimclub issues and tilling volleyball courts. Yet you felt you had to make it THE issue.
This 'new phenomenon', as you call it, is not a 'natural condition of youth' (also your words) and suggested 'young men and women should be focusing on building a better community'... Hello? Where do you think it starts from?"
The building you refer to does not START from a roof on a Habitat for Humanity house. It starts with the 'trivial matters of the heart' as you called them. We need more people who do think of others, who can admit when they acted improperly, who are concerned with correcting even the simplest of situations. Yes, this is exactly the kind of 'mental and emotional toughness'(your words again) THIS generation and generations to come NEED to have! It's called RESPECT!
You need to step off that soap box and read the paper; watch the news! Arguments and disagreements, even between friends are not being resolved, shots are being fired instead! We are killing each other, right here on our own soil. Let South America build their own damn volleyball courts. You failed to remember that this all started with volunteering to fix a court in the USA hopefully keeping a few kids off cocaine -- HERE! THAT WASN'T EVEN THE ISSUE ANYWAY!
Who are you to judge and imply that he is not doing enough of his part and therefore should join the Peace Corp.or build with Habitats..? Would this make him a better person? Would 'helping' out in another part of the world change the fact that there are many problems here that need to be addressed even 'trivial' ones as you implied? Does a Grad school degree eliminate 'trivial matters of the heart'? I guess I missed the part of his posting that would imply that the writer does not have an education.
Sorry but, it's more important for two people to learn to get along than mail out 2,000 mailings for my favorite candidate. In the long run, it is more beneficial. I would rather spend your 8 exaggerated hours to help those 2 out any day! My favorite candidate might not win, but those 2 will! In essence we all will!
The best line used in your second posting was:
"If nobody points out the errors of their ways, we will have nobody qualified to tackle the real world problems. " It must have really burned your hide to watch the firemen cry on 9/11. Maybe just as angry that the media has captured our soldiers in similar emotional states over in Iraq. The time when it was not acceptable for men to show their feelings and emotions is long over. Maybe you're just jealous...
But this is where it starts, NOT where it should stop!
WAKE UP! Otherwise just shut-up! We need you too!
|Didn't even need to read the other responses||Live Steam|
Jun 24, 2003 5:08 AM
|The guy sounds like a jerk. His hands were greasy? What kind of lame excuse is that? Is he married? Could he have had his wife call to explain the trouble? Did he ever think of washing his hands so he could call himself? He sounds maniacal to me. He pushed/hit you? I would either clean his clock for him or just leave him to his own enraged misery. Who needs friends like that?
You were putting yourself out for him when you could have been doing miles on the bike, and he has the nerve to place the blame on you? The fact that the equipment didn't work is irrelevant. He could have gotten in his car or even just called you first, before starting his repair project, to let you know he may be a while.
As for the game, I would go. Why let an idiot like that spoil your fun. Just give him the cold shoulder and I am sure he will get the message he acted like a jerk.
Jun 24, 2003 5:22 AM
|always take the high road...you can never go wrong...one cant be responsible for actions of others, only themselves..|
|Oh Loki 1, did you see him yet?||Starliner|
Jun 25, 2003 2:26 PM
|So did you go on Tuesday night? Give us an update.|
Jun 25, 2003 8:00 PM
|Sorry that I have not given an update earlier, I was very busy roofing a habitat for humanity house with 2000 letters for my favorite candidate in South America.
Ok, first, thank you for all the replies. It was all very good feedback and helped me to see all sides of the issue.
I ended up doing the "guy" thing. I went to the game, we played, not much discussion between us. Afterwards went to the bar (cause the blood bank was closed by this time so I couldn't donate blood with my "idle" time) with the whole group. When everyone else had left, I simply said "Mistakes were made, it is what it is." We had a beer.
Funny side note: during the confrontation I happened to have a chainsaw in my hand, I remember thinking at one point "note to self: next time buy the chainsaw with electric start."