|I have a solution to the Palestinian problem - Rebuilt ...||Noam|
Jun 22, 2003 5:54 AM
|the Gaza strip. Convert the bloody place to a PARKING LOT|
|Ahh, the Final Solution... only 1 million people - how wise nm||PdxMark|
Jun 22, 2003 10:32 AM
|re: Israelis retreat from all settlements....||jrm|
Jun 22, 2003 2:34 PM
|And try Sharon as a war criminal.|
|re: Israelis retreat from all settlements....||BikeViking|
Jun 23, 2003 6:22 AM
|Only if Yasser Arafat is on the block with him.
Not meant to start the flames, but why is it the "Palestinians" so enraged about their homeland now, but when Jordan owned the land from 1948 to 1967, there was no crying for the "Palestinian Homeland"? But since 1967, the Israelis have "owned" the West Bank and Gaza, there is this HUGE uproar to give that formerly Jordanian land to the Palestinians. How about he Black September Massacre? King Hussein was responsible for the deaths of MANY Palestinians.
I guess you can only masscre Arabs and get away with it if you are an Arab yourself.
Sharon has blood on his hands, to be sure, but to leave out the equally barbaric Arafat is disingenuous.
|I'm not sure what you mean...||TJeanloz|
Jun 23, 2003 6:51 AM
|I think you are misinformed about the situation. Jordan never owned any of the Palestinian land. The Jordanian army occupied parts of the West Bank, and the Egyptian army parts of Gaza - but the Arabs living there needed defense, and neither Egypt nor Jordan were ever under the impression that these lands were anything but the future independent Palestine. At Lausanne in 1949, Jordan accepted that their future boarder would be the historical Transjordan boarder (which it remains, to this day). The land in question was never "Jordanian" land.
I would encourage you to read the historical UN version of events: http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/qpal/index.html - it includes some really interesting maps, and provides a lot of insight (and primary source material) into the events that took place.
|A great link TJ, including the 1949 Armistice map ...||PdxMark|
Jun 23, 2003 7:11 AM
|in the overview section/map collection, signed by Moshe Dyan & others, with a hand-drawn boundary. As a bit of comic irony in a tragic mess, that map has a legend at the bottom saying "This map must NOT be considered an authority on the delimitation of international boundaries."|
|I'm not sure what you mean...||BikeViking|
Jun 23, 2003 10:12 AM
|Thanks for the tip...good information is always preferable, isn't it? Ha Ha
|I'm actually not sure,||TJeanloz|
Jun 23, 2003 10:21 AM
|I'd like to believe that the UN is a reliable source of information - and the site seems to be well detailed, with all of the i's dotted and t's crossed.
However, I don't historically view the UN as an impartial participant in the process, so I'm leery that the information they publish may be less than accurate. All in all though, it is the best source for original material around which to frame the debate without bias.
|I'm actually not sure,||BikeViking|
Jun 23, 2003 10:51 AM
|I would agree...after having done some assigned "homework" (ha ha), the pre-1956 ( I liked the initialed maps...can't argue with those)seems pretty fair, but the "Question Of Palestine" page gave lip service to the facts of the impending invasion of Israel by surrounding Arab countries, hence the pre-emptive Israeli strikes. The invasion of Israel during Yom Kippur in 1973 and the persistent artillery attacks form southern Lebanon which prompted the 1982 invasion. Not saying the IDF may not have been a bit brutal (I'd have to read up on that), but more often than not, Israel responds to attacks and threats of attacks.
Very educational nonethless...thanks again for the link.
|re: How can Arafat be held accountable||jrm|
Jun 23, 2003 2:10 PM
|for directives he never made nor has any control over. All israeli retaliation is directed by sharon and played out at a magnitude no other nation in the ME can match.
Its not about whos killing who first and whos retaliating. Its about putting the magnitude of the killings into perspective.
All we are feed by our media is that israel is ONLY retaliating against those cowardly fundamentalists. when if one backs up and looks at the big picture its sharon and the israeli military doing most the killing.
|Try answering the question.||purplepaul|
Jun 23, 2003 2:22 PM
|Arafat is a terrorist. It's how he came to power and how he kept it. If his misdeeds hadn't been indulged by the Europeans going back to before the Munich Olympics, I doubt we'd be seeing terrorism used as any kind of tool today.
Yes, the Israelis have better weapons and tend to kill more Palestinians per incident. But, if the al Aqsa Brigade (under Arafat's control) et al didn't kill Israelis, there'd be nothing to retaliate against.
There's a huge double standard. When Palestinians intentionally target and kill CIVILIANS, they're fighting for their freedom. When Israel targets known terrorists and mistakenly kills civilians (and apologizes for it), they're criminals.
And, for the record, the fundamentalists carrying out attacks are cowards.
|Try answering the question. what question?..||jrm|
Jun 23, 2003 2:48 PM
|I dont remember the origianl post or any precluding mine that asked a question?|
|Why shouldn't Arafat be held accountable||purplepaul|
Jun 23, 2003 3:52 PM
|for the terrorism he supports?|
|Why shouldn't Arafat be held accountable||jrm|
Jun 24, 2003 10:02 AM
|I said what i said because i really "think" that even he being a terorist himself at one time he doenst have control or direct the current fundamental factions that are responsible for israeli attacks.
Given this stance i find it hard to assume that he himself "supports" terrorism.
|How about Arafat? They could be cellmates.||sn69|
Jun 23, 2003 7:39 AM
|In spite of your previous comments, I do actually agree that Sharon needs to be brought to justice for his actions as Defense Minister, and, more specifically, his culpability in the Lebanese Christian Militia's slaughter of innocent civilians in the Bekkah. Likewise, I think all of the settlements must be withdrawn.
Still, I don't recall ever hearing you make any mention of Arafat's crimes and direct links to terrorist/criminal acts. Thus, I'm left wondering--do you have the presence of mind and the ability for rational thought to truly judge the full ramifications of the tragedy of that part of the world or are you simply so blinded by hate and rage that you only see one side?
I say this with sincerity--prove me wrong, JRM. Share some other opinions if you've got the time to spare.