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OldEdScott--I've jumped the subject to a fresh thread.(12 posts)

OldEdScott--I've jumped the subject to a fresh thread.sn69
May 23, 2003 7:03 AM
I agree that the Army of Northern Virgian was great by the standards of the day, but the factor that favored the traitors-er-I mean Confederates was that the vast preponderance of the best of the Army's officers corps turned in their blue tunics for gray ones. The remaining leadership cadre of the Federal Army was largely populated by inept REMFs who lacked the experience, integrity or insight to fight a war with the professionalism wielded by what the South brought to bear.

That said, perhaps you're right. Still, I'd argue that the tactics and strategy employed by the Indians were brilliant by modern standards and are still studied in terms of counter-insurgency/unconventional warfare tactics.

How about in the 20th Century? I think I would have to vote the Japanese Navy as the finest of our adversaries in terms of expertise, tactical proficiency, innovation use of new tactics, etc. They spanked us good in the Soloman Sea until Arleigh Burke arrived with his Little Beavers. Their naval tactical proficiency was great almost until the end. have been on one of Jesse Oldendorf's old WW1 battle wagons when he crossed the T on Kurita's southern force in Surigao Straits.......
No doubt the officer corps was a major factor.OldEdScott
May 23, 2003 7:28 AM
God, they were brilliant. Jackson especially was that wonderful combination of nuts and brilliance that makes for a truly great general. You never knew WHAT the nutty SOB was gonna do next. He'd sit there sucking a lemon, one arm stuck straight up in the air to 'balance my bodily humours,' and see things only he could see. If you were a Yankee general across from Jackson, you'd just sit on your camp stool waiting to have your mind blown (and your flank caved in). He paralyzed his adversaries. He could move his barefoot 'foot cavalry' a fifty miles overnight, and end up in your rear when you thought he was still on the ridge opposite. (You thought that because he left 20 guys behind to march in a circle in the gap between treelines).

But none of that would have been possible without the redneck Southern grunts who fought that war, barefoot and starving. They was WARRIORS, them boys was. Even at the end, human skeletons, they begged Lee not to surrender. And the funny thing is, Lee almost didn't. Even as skeletons, they still weren't whipped.

The Indians too were warriors and brilliant, but the Indian wars were fought on a scale and with tactics that it's hard (for me) to study and identify with. As a Son of the South, I can FEEL myself as one of 'Lee's Miserables.' And I can visit those battlefields, and hear ghosts.
Origination, please?moneyman
May 23, 2003 7:29 AM
This sounds interesting.

Down below, burried in one of the left v right tirades.sn69
May 23, 2003 7:37 AM
Scroll to the bottom of the Venus and Serena thread. nmOldEdScott
May 23, 2003 7:39 AM
Viet Minhmohair_chair
May 23, 2003 7:30 AM
One force that is often overlooked is the Viet Minh, who spanked the French in Vietnam before the Americans took over. Considering they were basically a bunch of farmers turned resistance fighters, they came up with some brilliant tactics. They were masters of ambush tactics, and the French paid very dearly as a result. Considering they were basically light infantry in the truest sense (no vehicles), their results are pretty spectacular.

Read Bernard Fall's "Street Without Joy" sometime. The French troops were brave (a lot of them were Foreign Legion), but they never had a chance.
I said the same thing in the thread below thatOldEdScott
May 23, 2003 7:37 AM
started all this. Gen. Giap turned a rag-tag bunch of peasants into, first, great resistance fighters and, later, into one of the world's greatest standing armies. The North Vietnamese Army was the real deal.
Sorry, I came in late...nmmohair_chair
May 23, 2003 7:50 AM
True, another oft overlooked pointsn69
May 23, 2003 7:40 AM
is that the VM fought the Japanese almost to a standstill and created a helluva bubble in the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. Uncle Ho schwacked a helluva lot of the Imperial's finest before he turned his attention towards the Frogs.
Bad asses. Bad, bad, BAD asses. nmOldEdScott
May 23, 2003 7:44 AM
With one dvision of NVA circa 1968,OldEdScott
May 23, 2003 7:46 AM
Saddam might still be holding out in Baghdad.
The dudes had tanks too...sn69
May 23, 2003 7:51 AM
and weren't afraid to use them. For that matter, the NV's air force was pretty good, and they made a couple overtures towards moutning an air assault at least twice on coastal battery ships on Yankee Station. That would have been a ballsie move. Fortunately, the cruisers Long Beach and Albany had missiles that could (and did) reach out and touch them.