|Hey did anyone catch Meet the Press yesterday?||Live Steam|
May 12, 2003 9:01 AM
|He had Mary Matalin and her clown husband James Carville on. What a hoot. I wonder if the fireworks go home with them. I would love to be a fly on the wall in their house :O) Say Old Ed what do you think of Carville?|
|Oh he's great. I knew him way back when. He came down to||OldEdScott|
May 12, 2003 9:23 AM
|Kentucky to handle a long-shot candidate for governor in 1988, well before he was a household name. Just another itinerant political consultant like me. Carville took one look around and told his guy: "Sh!t, man -- bourbon, horse racing and tobacco -- this state is built on vice. Let's give 'em another one. Come out for the lottery and make it your main issue.' He did, and he went from 2 percent in the polls to winning the primary in a breathtaking two months. My guy was among the surprise losers.
Got him back, though. Couple of years later he was back in Kentucky and we were on opposite sides of a big tax increase. Yep, Carville was opposed -- imagine that. He was back advising that same surprise winner, now governor.
Anyway, Carville was drunk and mouthy at a local political watering hole in Frankfort one night, and I could tell he was 'loose' enough to say something stupid. So I called a reporter friend and said: "Call Carville at the hotel, I understand he has something important to say, find out and let me know!" He did, and Carville did -- he called my guy, the leader of the tax initiative, a cooksucker. The quote was duly reported in the papers the next day, with many asterisks. I think it was as bad as this: c********r.
At any rate, we were able to shake our heads sadly about the foul and abusive language of this hired Louisiana foreigner meddling in our state's business, and James was soon riding out of town, and our tax initiative won. Couple of years later he hired on with Clinton and the rest is history.
I love him though. Hilarious guy.
|re: Hey did anyone catch Meet the Press yesterday?||Alpedhuez55|
May 12, 2003 9:41 AM
|Carville is great. I love to watch him on those shows. He is always entertaining even though I usually disagree with him most of the time. I would hate to be a candidate on the other side of him though. He would be a great guy to sit down with for a few drinks though.
Mary Matalin is a pretty strange pairing for him. She has a great sense of humor to though and I guess that is why it has been able to last for them.
|Carville's best line (possibly apocryphal):||cory|
May 12, 2003 3:22 PM
|I've interviewed him in media feeding frenzies a couple of times, and I was amazed how sharp and quick he is--people would shout random questions to him, often meant to nail him (damn the conservative media conspiracy!), but he just slapped them down.
One response I didn't hear, but have read about a couple of places, supposedly occurred just after the disastrous 2000 elections. You'll remember that Gore lost Tennessee. Some Republican, I've forgotten who, asked Carville how it felt to work for a candidate who didn't even win his own state. Carville shot back, "How's it feel to work for one who didn't win his own country?"
|Carville is a nutcase||DougSloan|
May 12, 2003 9:44 AM
|He's an absolute nut. I can't even imagine that he believes half of what he says.
Anyone catch him last election night on national television with a trash can on his head? Must have kept it there for 30 minutes. At least he does have sense of humor.
|Nuts like a fox.||OldEdScott|
May 12, 2003 9:50 AM
|The stuff he says/does sticks in your head. You remember a single thing anyone else did the night he put the trashcan on his head?
"General Cue Ball Carville is declaring war ..." HA HA HA HA HA!
|True enough. His outward appearence is ...||Live Steam|
May 12, 2003 10:00 AM
|enough to make you remember him. His act would never work for a Republican candidate. We Republicans are just too reserved - or is that stuck up :O)
Say how does one get into political strategizing for a living, anyway? Must be fun telling someone else what to say and do while sitting in the background sippin' sourmash and eatin' all that free food ;o)
|Good question. A young rental car guy in Chicago last month||OldEdScott|
May 12, 2003 10:10 AM
|asked me what I did for a living. I said political consulting. He said, "Wow, is you a SPIN DOCTOR?" I said, Yeah, I suppose you could call me that, sure if you like. He said "Wow, I always wanted to be a spin doctor. How you gets to be a spin doctor? You go to college and gets a degree in spin doctoring?" I said, Naw, you normally just back into it accidentally. I majored in journalism, covered politics because I was always politically active, got sick of covering politics and wanted to get back in the game, wrote a few speeches for candidates and the word kind of spread. He said, "Naw, man, don't want to be no reporter but I sure would like to be a SPIN DOCTOR. Them cats can say it's daylight when it's dark and make folks believe it! Bet you can too, Doctor! Come on, spin me about somethin'!"
It's a wonderful career aspiration, all right.
|well, if memorable is the goal, he's doing well||DougSloan|
May 12, 2003 10:13 AM
|I could make myself memorable pretty easily. In fact, just about anyone can. Do something really outrageous -- someone in the media will cover it.
Not the same as credible or respectable, though.
My suspicion is that the Democrats put him out there like some circus freak, then by contrast the rest of them appear credible.
|God, almost every word of that post||OldEdScott|
May 12, 2003 10:16 AM
|is dead wrong. You keep thinking it, though! It helps us out if you guys underestimate James!|
|that was a cop-out||DougSloan|
May 12, 2003 10:58 AM
|Pretty easy to say what you did, but sort of a cop-out. I'm disappointed. ;-(
|Just trying to be gentle. I know what a perfectionist you are,||OldEdScott|
May 12, 2003 11:11 AM
|and how making mistakes pains you!
But OK, here you go:
Carville's bona fides have been well established. He's run more successful campaigns that you can shake a stick at, including a presidential campaign. Don't know how much more credible it's possible to BE than James. Whether you agree with him or not, you have to agree he knows what he's doing. It's HARD to win campaigns, BELIEVE me, and getting a president elected is damn near miraculous. It's like winning the Masters, or coaching the NCAA basketball champs. BY DEFINITION, you're credible if you do it.
The clown act is part and parcel of his schtick. It WORKS for him, and it works for the people he works for. That's why they pay him big bucks. Everything James does is well thought out and according to plan, believe me. He's like those Southern country lawyers who WANT you to underestimate him. Watch out for those guys.
The idea that we use him as a buffoon to make other Democrats look respectable is ... well, it leaves me stammering. I don't even know how to rebut that except to say gently: NAW.
But I'm serious: If you choose to believe it, great. He's never going to convince you of anything anyway, and if you (I mean a generic right wing you) insist on taking him lightly, we'll chickle when he hands you your head at the next election. (although alas, I don't think he's taking new domestic clients.)
|I see what you mean||DougSloan|
May 12, 2003 11:50 AM
|You are focusing upon the behind the scenes aspects, and he may well have been a succussful strategist for Clinton. I was thinking more in terms of his public image, or statesmanship.
If it was his, I'll give him credit for something the Demos did well in the 90s -- adopt Republican issues for election time, get elected, then abandon them asap. It worked, but everyone is on to that now.
|AH! I see what you mean, too.||OldEdScott|
May 13, 2003 5:23 AM
|Sorta like all the Republicans in the past couple of elections INSISTING they're going to PROTECT SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE, very loudly, because even though they hate both programs, they know they'll never get elected unless they at least give 'em noisy lip service.
I see. Very shrewd.
This politics business can get complicated. Hard to tell the players without a program.
|I can't stand today's politics||Kristin|
May 12, 2003 12:08 PM
|What makes this man a sucess is his ability to manipulate people. Its all a game of strategy. Where's the honestly. I'm foolish I know. I still hold out hope for a wholesome government. Okay, perhaps delerium is a better word for it. Today's variety of politics makes me ill.|
|the Truth? You can't handle....||DougSloan|
May 12, 2003 1:32 PM
|Perfectly honest politicians would never get elected. Ok, here's what I would say -- tell me if anyone would vote for me:
*I'm against abortion and against the death penalty
*I want taxes to be so low that the government is forced to cut spending, even if it means cutting half the government work force and programs that are too full of corruption and waste
*The goverment's primary obligation is national security; a strong military to deter attacks is necessary
*The economy should operate as freely as it can, with as little government interference as possible
*Judges should strictly interpret the Constitution and laws if they can, and then apply precedent and reason only if the strict interpretation is absurd; I would appoint judges who tend to agree with that
*I would aggressively enforce civil rights laws, as discrimination is evil; however, affirmative action tends to further discrimination and is inherently unfair
*We should do whatever we reasonably can to promote independence on foreign oil; more drilling here, as well as incentives for alternative fuels and mass transporation
*The tax code should be simpler and should not be used as a tool for social manipulation; a graduated flat tax would be supported
*The government should butt out of people's personal lives
*Some drugs should be illegal, some shouldn't; some are so dangerous that you are likely to be hurt or hurt someone else; get rid of them; some are no more dangerous than hundreds of other things that are legal; don't ban the substance, but punish bad behavior resulting from using it (like driving under the influence).
*Guns should be legal but kept out of the hands of convicts and nuts
*I drink now and then, maybe even bordering on drunk; I've never hurt anyone doing it, though
*I've been divorced once and broken up with enough girlfriends that you probably could line up a few to say bad things about me; oh, well.
*I hate barking dogs and neighbors who use their gas blowers at 6 am on the weekends
*I've tried to pay all my taxes and obligations; something could have slipped through
*Sometimes I say thoughtless, stupid things; I'm human; I usually regret when I do
*I go to church occasionally, probably more as my son gets older; I believe in God, but I'm not very certain of His nature; I don't go around saying "God bless you," as it sounds silly to me. I don't care what religion, if any, anyone else practices; assuming there is any ramification for what you believe, it has nothing to do with me. However, I believe people, including kids, should be able to pray anywhere they want, including school; they certainly don't have to, though. I don't think the First Amendment Establishment Clause means a small minority can force the majority to completely shut up in public about their beliefs.
*I spend too much time on the internet and too much time on my hobby, cycling. I ride these stupid long rides in the desert to the point of near collapse, for no apparent reason.
*I drive too fast and I'm presently driving a smaller SUV, because I like all wheel drive and space to carry plenty of stuff. Everyone should be free to drive what they want to.
*I'm a lawyer. Most people don't like lawyers. I just try to be one of the ones some people might actually approve of. Funny how people who don't like lawyers keep coming to me for help.
Now tell me, would anyone get elected saying anything like that? Not a chance.
|I'll vote for ya'! What do you think you want to run for?||Live Steam|
May 12, 2003 1:49 PM
|Hey maybe I can be you "spin meister" - kinda like Old Ed, except I have been laying off the bourbon for a while and prefer Vodka with a few rocks and olives once in a while in addition to some cold ones and a nice glass of red wine with steak or pasta.
I can live with abolishing the death penalty, and I am all for cutting taxes. As for you being a "loiya" well my Mom is a retired one, and I put up with her all these years and besides I love a good debate now and again :O)
How about it? We can cycle the country together, spreading the message of Laisse Faire :O) LOL
|Ok, that's you and my mom||DougSloan|
May 12, 2003 1:59 PM
|Well, that's 3 total; my dad and wife would not vote for me, based upon my platform. Too much pick and choose from each side to satisfy either one.
BTW, that whole point is that no spin meister is needed.
Why don't we just cycle the country and leave it at that? ;-)
|Ah! I get it! You're just trying to eliminate ...||Live Steam|
May 12, 2003 2:43 PM
|all those huge consulting fees :O) But what's a guy like Ol Ed gonna do if you eliminate the spin? Who will explain Laisse Faire to the media?|
|Let's be honest here, Doug||sn69|
May 12, 2003 2:00 PM
|The real issue with you is your penchant for celeste green, and nothing more. "Celeste?!?!"|
May 12, 2003 2:25 PM
|God help me if the Italians piss us off.
May 12, 2003 4:38 PM
|FWIW, Doug, I find it refreshing to encounter an anti-abortionist who is also anti-death penalty. All too often, the religious right who champion the right-to-life cause seem to forget their contractual obligations later in life. Timing, it seems, is a fickle beotch for some....
Personally, I'm pro-choice and terribly torn by the death penalty issue. On one hand, I find it absurdly difficult for a society to prove capital guilt with 100% accuracy and even one mistakenly executed innocent is one too many. On the other, there are some people that I deem rabid and worthy only of being put down. Specifically, I refer to the Jeffrey Dauhmer/Danny Rawlins types. Injected into it all is the military ethos where one swears upon an oath do kill if necessary. Duplicity and confusion in the extreme.
In any case, I applaud your integrity in your conviction with regards to these difficult, intensely personal subjects.
|thanks; the basic philosophy||DougSloan|
May 12, 2003 7:49 PM
|Here's my fundamental philosophy: You don't kill unless you have to. We can lock people up forever, so we don't have to kill them. On the battlefield, though, most of the time there is no choice. I think the US military 99.9% of the time is in the right morally, and does what it has to to acheive a greater end, like liberating an oppressed people that are being murdered by the thousands.
I could probably refine the theory a bit, but that's the guts of it.
I do also have sympathy for women finding themselves with an unwanted pregnancy, and they certainly do have a right to control their bodies, but to me the right of the life inside them is superior; it's ugly, unfair, and unfortunate, but sometimes that's life.
|"alas, I don't think he's taking new domestic clients"||Live Steam|
May 12, 2003 12:54 PM
|Who's he representing, the next Ayatollah Khomeini? Or maybe it's that British Labor Party guy George Galloway. The most upstanding politicians always seem to use Carville :O)|
|He's been doing overseas elections, mainly Israel.||OldEdScott|
May 13, 2003 4:44 AM
|Big $$$$$$$$.|| |