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"substance orientation"(27 posts)

"substance orientation"DougSloan
May 7, 2003 7:59 AM
"He argued that just as the court had created a prohibition against discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, he should receive similar constitutional protection on the basis of "substance orientation" and "vocation orientation."

"A natural preference or taste for herbs is a substance orientation," said the 31-year-old university dropout, sporting a black shirt, jacket, pants and boots, white tie, and multicolored "hankie," all made from hemp.


Appealing to the court to strike down the law, he said: "For the vast section of people all over the world who have an innate feeling deep down inside they should have a right to self-medicate and control their own minds, you'll be heroes."

Now that's thinking like a lawyer... :-)

That 'heroes' business is excellent spin. The rest isOldEdScott
May 7, 2003 8:27 AM
naught but slippery slope to a libertarian utopia.
good analogiesDougSloan
May 7, 2003 8:36 AM
He uses analogies to or extensions of "sexual orientation" and abortion rights arguments. Fairly clever.

What if you truly are born with a genetic predisposition to use certain drugs? Why should that be criminal? Also, if a woman has a right to control her body, why can't someone control his own brain?

Not sure whether it is good argument or merely points out defects in the other existing arguments.

I'm not sure if his argument is liberal, libertarian orOldEdScott
May 7, 2003 8:47 AM
genuinely conservative (it seems like it ought to be a conservative argument to say: The govt has no business concerning itself with what I do to or with MY self).

Whatever, it seems sound to me. I've always felt that way about personal choice, like drugs, nutty religion a la Waco, interspecies sex, guns in every room of the house, and upgrading to nine speeds. Might be crazy, might be obnoxious, but it's nobody else's business.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Native Americans areRhodyRider
May 7, 2003 9:04 AM
born with a genetic predispostion to have absolutely zero tolernace for alcohol, and therefore can become "instant" alcoholics. While this may not in itself be criminal behavior (in a legislative sense), it certainly is alarming and the resultant socio-cultural effect of this predisposition is horrifying and often criminal. So do we outlaw liquor for all Native Americans?
Of course, we all know pot is not "addictive" like alcohol, so perhaps my point is moot?
Not really, actually...Charlie Amerique
May 8, 2003 8:01 AM has more to do with sugar intake and response. Since alcohol is broken down into a series of sugars, it's a matter of how well the enzymes break the alcohol down.
Since MOST Native American tribes have no access to distilled products, they had not developed (or had lost the development of) the needed enzymes used to break it down.
This results in an "intolerance" of alcohol and not a predisposition to addiction.

Also, since Native American tribal lands and laws fall under treaties that do not allow the government to enact or enforce most social legislation, a ban on alcohol would not affect tribal law anymore than laws against organized gambling would.
Interesting human bio lesson. Tks. (nm)RhodyRider
May 8, 2003 11:55 AM
Leaning (careening?) to bourbon, myself. Advice needed!Dale Brigham
May 7, 2003 8:54 AM
Since Bill Bennett seems to have gambling locked up, I'm leaning towards a new and different vice to add to my repertoire: bourbon. I like Jim Beam, I adore Maker's Mark; beyond that, I'm clueless. Mid-priced and readily-available suggestions are most appreciated.

You've nailed the two I'dOldEdScott
May 7, 2003 9:09 AM
recommend. Jim Beam for everyday, Maker's Mark for special occasions. But is MM readily available over your way?

Evan Williams and Wild Turkey are also good everyday mash, if you need a change from Beam. I think they're readily available everywhere, and in the $12 range. Wild Turkey was made famous by by Hunter Thompson, by the way. I prefer the 80 proof; he swills the bonded 100.

For really special, if you can find it, Woodford Reserve is a wonder. I used to live a half mile from that distillery, and the smell of sour mash in the air was heavenly every fall.

Bourbon is a culture unto itself, a lot like wine but even more esoteric & weird. You will never regret becoming an Addict!
You've nailed the two I'dAlpedhuez55
May 7, 2003 9:24 AM
Maker's Mark is the best. Knob Creek is another good onethat costs about $20 a bottle. One cheap one I found drinkable is Rebel Yell. I got a craving for it last week. I was looking for a bottle of it and could not find it. I will have to check a couple of other stores for it.

Something about a sunny spring day makes me want to sit on the back porch with a good cigar and a glass of Whiskey!!!

Mike Y.
Hey Mike, where do you live? I'mOldEdScott
May 7, 2003 9:37 AM
always interested to hear where Maker's Mark is available. It's really a tiny operation. Those bottles are hand dipped in the red wax by little old Kentucky ladies!
Hey Mike, where do you live? I'mAlpedhuez55
May 7, 2003 9:52 AM
I live in a suburb north of Boston. Makers Mark is pretty popular here. It is available in most stores in the area, even the smaller ones. I was even in a cigar store that had a Makers Mark Cigars in glass tubes dipped in red wax!!!

I actually almost moved to Covington several years back. I was working at Fidelity and my department was moving there. Had too much going on in my life at the time to move though and decided to finish my degree.

It is nice to see we finally found something we can both agree on!!!

Mike Y.
Well, Bourbon is a much more serious matter than politics! nmOldEdScott
May 7, 2003 10:04 AM
Drink enough of it and you will be a Conservative yet!!! ;-) nmAlpedhuez55
May 7, 2003 10:25 AM
I'd better quit, then! (nm)eyebob
May 7, 2003 10:54 AM
rebel yell-keith richards' drink of choice. (nm)rufus
May 7, 2003 1:50 PM
was that when he wasn't mainlining heroin? (nm)ColnagoFE
May 8, 2003 7:50 AM
It is probably the only reason he is alive today!!! (nm)Alpedhuez55
May 8, 2003 9:31 AM
You've nailed the two I'drwbadley
May 7, 2003 1:43 PM
Ahhh Bourbon... great stuff. When I'm drinking beer, scotch, mezcal, tequila, I like to have a bourbon too.

Look into some of the rye. A couple good ones are Old Overholt, Jim Beam Rye, Van Winkle rye.

Michters distillery in PA made some great stuff that was bought up by A.H. Hirsch. This was put out as Hirsch 16 and 20 year old. If you love Bourbon, and you happen to see a bottle of this languishing on a shelf somewhere, GET IT! It was distilled in 1974. Make sure it says distilled in '74. It is no longer being made as the distillery is RIP. This is the best stuff you will ever taste, period. I have done tastings of the best available (when I say the best, I mean it really,-- the best is a whole nuther subject)scotch, bourbon, cognac, etc... The Hirsch comes out on top every time. The bad news is (if you can find it) it may be expensive. Stocks are gone, the places that have some want $100+ bottle. The last I heard, a place was getting 150 for it, and they were almost out... If you see it dusty on some shelf, and they have a 60-80 price on it, just get it, you won't regret it. (if you like bourbon) The good news is, a store that had some in Reno closed. I got all they had for about $45/bottle. A Steal. I had a guy in England offer me 100/bottle for it and I turned him down...

We need to get a RBR tasting session together.. Bikes, Beer, Bourbon, what else is there? (Broads?)

They all taste like pickled goat pi$$ to meSpoiler
May 7, 2003 3:17 PM
Just give me a quart of YooHoo mixed with a pint of Everclear.
Jim beam?ColnagoFE
May 7, 2003 9:14 AM
You call that good bourbon? Just kiddin. I'm not a big Bourbon fan ever since I had a bad experience with Jack Daniels in college. Still remember that hangover. Used to drink lots of Wild Turkey and Old Grandad...those packed a whallop and tasted nice with a cube or two of ice and a beer chaser. I'm sticking to Vodka, Gin, Scotch and the occasional Irish Whiskey these days. Easier hangovers than bourbon.
Unfairly lumped!OldEdScott
May 7, 2003 9:19 AM
Jack Daniels is NOT Bourbon! It's Tennesse whiskey, which is a whole 'nother thing. No WONDER you got sick. Whew! Stick with the pure product of Kentucky. As we say hereabouts, Nothing sucks like a big orange!*

*For non-fans of college sports, orange is UT's color, and we hate UT.
Unfairly lumped!Alpedhuez55
May 7, 2003 9:34 AM
I had a college roomate from Kentucky who got in a fist fight with another student who insisted that Jack Daniels was a Bourbon. THey take that stuff seriously!!!

Miek Y.
Here's a list for you...RhodyRider
May 7, 2003 9:40 AM
As stated by others, Woodford Reserve is excellent, and Knob Creek is darned good too. Also try: Evan Williams 10-year old single barrel; Basil Hayden; Elijah Craig 12-year old; Old Rip Van Winkle 12-year old; Wild Turkey Rare Breed. You can google "bourbon" and find tons of resources and opinions.
Happy hunting...
These are all very nice, but IOldEdScott
May 7, 2003 9:50 AM
think he was looking for something medium-priced and readily available. You've listed the 'good stuff,' which can run into serious dough.

The beauty of Bourbon is, it's distilled under such strict (and narrow) guidelines that even the cheapest is clearly 'Bourbon,' and perfectly drinkable.

I was thinking about going for a ride this afternoon, but after getting into this thread and reading Mike's post about Bourbon & cigars on the back stoop in Spring, I may be about to change my mind ... Hmmmmmmm ... "Git the horses up, honey! Call the Dawgs. Amon git me a drank and sit out back a spell ..."
Many thanks to all of you for your kind suggestions...Dale Brigham
May 7, 2003 10:17 AM
Tomorrow is Harry Truman's birthday, which is a state holiday here in MO (and nowhere else on the planet, I'm sure). As I recall, Harry was known to enjoy a touch of bourbon from time to time. In his honor, as the sun is setting, I will sit on the deck and raise a glass to "Give 'em Hell Harry ("I just tell the truth, and they think it's Hell").

That is, unless we have another tornado bearing down on us, as we have for the last two evenings. Even had to send all the legislators in the MO state capitol building into the basement yesterday afternoon. As expendable state bureaucrats, we just huddled in our claptrap rent-an-office buildings (think giant trailer house), hoping to not get sucked into the void, until the storm passed. I wonder what leave code to put on my timesheet for "Absent due to giant tornado sucking me into space"?

Again, thanks! BTW, Ed, Maker's Mark is widely available here in mid-MO. Too available, if you ask my wife.

Sheesh! You deserve a couple of bourbons, what withRhodyRider
May 7, 2003 11:33 AM
all that tornado madness going on. Cheers, prosit, cin cin, bottoms up!