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Apr 24, 2003 6:30 AM
Anyone see this site: ? (having connection problems, but you can see cached page at Google )

I realize this is beating a beaten horse (though not dead, yet), but I was amazed to see all the organized opposition to the "famous idiots."

envy is a sinmohair_chair
Apr 24, 2003 7:46 AM
I love the statement at the top: "This site is dedicated to exposing the elitists among us that feel compelled to speak out against the very country that afforded them the opportunity to earn a King's fortune."

Seems to me that envy is the driving factor here, as I believe it usually is with people who get so riled up about celebrities. Just because they are rich and famous, they can't have differing opinions? And that makes them Anti-Americans??? Is there a list of not so rich and not so famous people who have differing opinions? I'm amazed at the time put into this. Grow up! Therapy is available.

I love how Nancy Pelosi makes the list. I'm not sure if she is rich or famous, but part of her job is to lead the opposition party to the President. This guy apparently doesn't know that. Or doesn't care. She must be Anti-American, because she isn't in lock step with the President. What a doofus this guy is.

By far, the most interesting thing on the entire page is a quote from Jennifer Aniston, talking about when she and husband Brad Pitt would encounter Jenna Bush, who was working as an intern at their representive's firm: "We'd pass her in the hall," Aniston says, "and Brad would say, 'Heyyyy, Jenna, wanna beer? I got one in the truck!'"

And that makes Brad Pitt an Anti-American, along with anyone else who has ever made a Bush daughter joke. That's probably 50% of the country!
'_chair....One thing is for sure......cycleaddict
Apr 24, 2003 8:17 AM
Bushies love to bash, but have a hard time BEING bashed.

Gotta love those Dixie Chicks!!!!
turn around?DougSloan
Apr 24, 2003 8:27 AM
Anti-Bushies love to bash, but have a hard time BEING bashed.
Hell, Doug, of COURSE. You could say thatOldEdScott
Apr 24, 2003 8:35 AM
about any human anywhere.

But ...

We anti-Bushies don't have a hard time being bashed. We're Clintonites, we have 12 years of it under our belts, we're USED to it! Bring it on! Say you're ashamed Bill Clinton is from Arkansas and we will LAUGH.
I'm really LOLDougSloan
Apr 24, 2003 8:49 AM
Ashamed Clinton from Arkansas? That's really funny. Other than diamonds, he's probably the best thing Arkansas ever produced.

"We anti-Bushies don't have a hard time being bashed." YOU KIDDING? That's what all the hysteria is about -- these anti-Bushies griping about others bashing/boycotting them!

Between you and me, in all honesty, we know that everyone does this. Say something someone else doesn't like, and someone else is going to speak out against what you said, and maybe even call for a boycott of your product, firing, resignation, reprimand, whatever. What gets me is the holier-than-thou attitude of the famous anti-Bushies who are claiming immunity from counter-attack now. Everyone is fair game, and just because you are a celebrity, that does not make you any less suscpetible to criticism for what you say than anyone else.

I know darn well that if I said something publicly controversial, some people would refuse to use me as their lawyer for that sole reason. People probably can't even help feeling that way, and there's nothing wrong with it. These celebs are claiming some sort of exception to that, and aggressively so, and that's what is amusing to me.

turn around?BikeViking at home
Apr 24, 2003 1:08 PM
They all seem to forget that freedom of speech is a TWO-way street.

The "hollywood elite" sure get their knickers in a twist when someone speaks out against them.

Kinda hypocritical I think...

I was proud to see Springsteen say a few wordsOldEdScott
Apr 24, 2003 8:32 AM
in support of the Dixie Chicks. Good to hear a voice of reason. This country has just gone hysterical. Never seen anything like it. I guess it's a reaction to 9/11.

I've always been one to say, the American people are amazingly wise, in their collective wisdom they almost always find the truth. So it throws me a little bit to see so many of them behaving this way.

Saying 'I'm ashamed GWB is from TEXAS' is so ... MILD. It's absolutely nothing. It's barely an insult. WOrse things have been said about every president, every day, since the founding of the nation. It's American as apple pie to say wretched things about our leaders. But not now, boy.

'I'm ashamed George Bush is from Texas.' Hmph. Barely a love tap.

There's insanity loose in the land.
situation so full of irony and hypocrisyDougSloan
Apr 24, 2003 8:40 AM
Did you see all the hate mail and threats against those who speak out against those speaking out against Bush? (follow that?)

It's ludicrous to hear people threatening others for commenting on someone else's speech, and at the same time using "free speech" as the reason for the desire to silence others. All sides are doing it. That's what is funny to me.

Here's how it goes, essentially:

A) I hate Bush/the war/etc.
B) I hate you for hating Bush, etc. Shut up.
A) How dare you try to silence me? I have 1st Amendment rights. You shut up.

It's insanity, Really is. Both sides.OldEdScott
Apr 24, 2003 8:48 AM
If people would just back off a second and look at what they're saying, SURELY they'd come to their senses. We're Americans, after all.
oh OldEdScott, you've opened a whole can of worms now!sacheson
Apr 24, 2003 12:16 PM
We're all Americans? Jeez! Now we're going to hear from all of those that aren't Americans who post here ... then we're going to hear it from those Americans who don't thing the rest of us are Americans because we've questioned decisions from "The Boss Man".

Can the server handle that kind of overload? ;-)
God, what was I THINKING? nmOldEdScott
Apr 25, 2003 4:43 AM
I'm PROUD to say that Dick Cheneymoneyman
Apr 24, 2003 8:44 AM
Is from Wyoming. Just up the street, so to speak, as Casper is his hometown.

In fact, this is one of my more prized pieces of correspondence. I wrote to Dick in 1993 stating that I would be available to campaign for him should he run for president. Instead, as we all know, he took the more profitable route and went into private industry. I think he's a wonderful man, dedicated, patriotic, great integrity, and gift to the country from Wyoming.

I was proud to see Springsteen say a few wordsBikeViking at home
Apr 24, 2003 1:12 PM
Well, those boycotting the Chicks (right or wrong) are exercising their "free speech" by using the marketplace as their forum by not buying their (Chicks)product(s).

When one opens their yap in a such a public fashion, it should come as no suprise that there MAY be financial repercussions (people no longer want your product).

I'm gonna take this to the top, nmOldEdScott
Apr 25, 2003 4:45 AM
related story -- Madonna to give away her fortuneDougSloan
Apr 24, 2003 8:57 AM
Talk about irony, get this:

While she may be correct, let's see if she gives her fortune away to charity now. Any bets?

reads more like a piece from The Onion. nm.DJB
Apr 24, 2003 9:24 AM
related story -- Madonna to give away her fortuneSteveS
Apr 24, 2003 9:31 AM
She discovered this several years after making her semi-porn book and getting breast implants. Maybe she does know something about artificiality after all.
surely you mean famous liberal idiot ? - nmMJ
Apr 24, 2003 9:34 AM
answer me this ...sacheson
Apr 24, 2003 9:41 AM
Why is it, when someone speaks out against Bush they are labeled a commie - but when someone spoke out against Clinton (when he was in office), they were an American? Should Rush Limbaugh be charged with treason for having the America Under Siege counter for every day Clinton was in office? How is that different than a high-profile liberal speaking out against Bush?

I don't understand the two-faced nature of the extreme conservatives ... piss on the office when their own isn't sitting in the chair, and label the rest of the world communists when they don't agree with a Republican president. I can guarantee you - if a Democrat was in the office right now, and if the EXACT same events played out, the exact same group of people who support Bush would be bad mouthing any activity in Iraq.

This leads me to a question I've had for a long time - do those of you who support Bush really support the war? How about those against the war? Are you truly against what we are doing, or are you against Bush, therefore can't agree with any of his actions.

I think it's sad when a group of people resort to such rash and childish behavior just because someone has a different political view. is nothing more than fuel for hatred ... what wonderful tactics for the group that wants to 'end partisan politics'.
One more thing -sacheson
Apr 24, 2003 9:44 AM
I have to state my strong disagreement with the MODERATOR of this group posting crap on here that's sure to start the political war again.

Isn't your job to limit this behavior, not breed it? Bad call Doug.
The Daily ShowIFTreedog
Apr 24, 2003 9:57 AM
Jon Stewart said something the other day concerning the 'bashing' of the left and right. He was asked why he picks on Bush and not the Democrats and said "It's because we can't find the Democrats"

Then he went on and said that the majority of America is neither left-wing nor right-wing, but rather American. And that most people hold lots of opinions which contradict each other and themselves. He said that the only people for whom absolute 'democrat' and 'republican' labels held any meaning were the simpletons in the media. That it was their quest for ratings and advertising revenue that created such polarizations.

It reminds me of Chomsky who says quite plainly that in media, as in all business, there is a product being sold. The obvious (and erroneous) conclusion is that in media the product is the magazine or newspaper or television show, and the reader is the consumer. The true product, says Chomsky, is a cultivated, homogenous, demographic slice of the population and the true buyer is the advertiser.

So when you read or watch or listen to anything that claims to be the news, and then it breaks for a commercial, YOU are being sold to them, and not the other way around.

By the way Navigators ROCK!
not only do the Navigators ROCK ...sacheson
Apr 24, 2003 10:13 AM
... but Scooter ... erm, Chris Baldwin ... is a freaking stud. To watch someone with his integrity develop into the caliber of athlete that Lieswyn, Vogels, and Horner are is pretty cool.
seems like a legitimate discussion to me nmDougSloan
Apr 24, 2003 10:39 AM
Of course it sounds good to you - you initiated it! (nm)sacheson
Apr 24, 2003 11:16 AM
so what?mohair_chair
Apr 24, 2003 12:04 PM
Just because he is the moderater doesn't mean he can't post stuff, too. He's the same guy as before, only with the power to delete. I think he also carries a badge now and expects a salute.
as stated initally ...sacheson
Apr 24, 2003 12:12 PM
... he was brought in to curb the offensive posts coming from both sides of (mostly) political debates. I feel with that power comes some personal responsiblity - i.e. don't start what you're here to limit.

He still posts his views, and I have NO problem with that. I disagree, however, that he IS the same guy he was before. He's been put in a position of authority, and it is his responsiblity to act in a manner that he is supposed to enforce. I think the site he linked to is hateful and close minded, and I think he wanted to start another bashing-style political discussion.
not my mandateDougSloan
Apr 24, 2003 12:52 PM
My mandate is to enforce the Forum Guidelines:

There is nothing there about prohibition of political debates -- I'm certainly not here to limit them, at least on the Non-Cycling Forum.

The only thing I'm here to do is enforce the Guidelines. If you feel I'm not doing that, please let me know how.

I will absolutely never censor someone for substantive content that does not violate the guidelines. Doesn't matter how politically offensive it might be.

Also, I'm not doing anything different than I ever did with my personal posts.

Apr 24, 2003 1:01 PM
I see your point, and I guess I misunderstood what your mandate is. I thought you were here to curb offensive posts, not simply delete them if they exist.