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Canada's stance on war in Iraq(27 posts)

Canada's stance on war in Iraqbiker_eric
Apr 13, 2003 7:28 AM
Hi, I'am a Canadian and I was wondering what you all think about Canada's choice not to follow America into war?

I personally think that George W. Bush is turning America into the terrorists by trying to police the world and set up false democracies throughout third world countries.

Blood is thicker than oil.
re: Canada's stance on war in IraqAlpedhuez55
Apr 13, 2003 9:54 AM
Blood is thicker than oil? Considering the the #1 importer of oil to the US is Canada, wouldn't it have made more sense for the US to take over Canada first? Outside of Quebec, it seems like there is suport for the US.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1049683031122_55/?hub=Canada

Then again, a large part of Quebec doesn't even support the rest of Canada.

US oil from the Middle East was 31% at the time of GW1 to about 17% at the now, the war is obviously not about oil. But if you like lame a$$ liberal catch prases like "False Democracy" or "Blood is thicker than oil," I guess you can use these catch phrases to mask knowledge of the real reasons behind the war such as reducing the threat of terrorism, stability in the middle east and removing a pretty nasty dictator from power. Oil is a much smaller factor in the war, that is unless you are in France Germany or Russia. Calling Americans terrorists shows that you do not have a very good understanding of how the Iraqi regime operated.

Setting up a Democracy does not happen overnight. I am sure we will see them set up in both Afghanistan and Iraq fairly soon. In the past the US has helped replace one dictator with another. That is a failed policy but they seemed to have learned from past mistakes and are encouraging democracies.

Whenever there is a problem in the world like in Iraq, Kosovo, Somalia, North Korea or anywhere else, the world looks to the US to be their policeman. The problem is the rest of the world hates Cops.

Mike Y.
re: Canada's stance on war in Iraqbiker_eric
Apr 13, 2003 10:30 AM
considering I live in Canada, I think I'd know a bit more about what Canadians think of Americans. Why does everyone think that Quebec wants to seperate, this isn't the 1970's our prime minister and most of his cabinet are from Quebec. Mabe if you Americans weren't so gung ho on "liberating" a.k.a bombing the people of Iraq and other middle east nations, then they probably wouldn't want to fly airplanes into your buildings.

Stop watching CNN and open your eyes.
re: Canada's stance on war in IraqJon Billheimer
Apr 13, 2003 12:07 PM
I'm also from Canada and I have a slightly different take on where our gov't is on this. First of all, national polls indicate a roughly 50-50 split on support for the American position. That's up from an initial 70-30 split against. Opposition is, characteristically and traditionally, highest in Quebec and lowest in Alberta. In Alberta public opinion is currently about 80-20 in favour of Americans.

While I agree with the Cdn. gov't original position of supporting the war only with U.N. sanction, I don't understand the Chretien manoeuvering. We sent the third largest contingent to indirectly support the war, with our three escort frigates. Our gov't publicly endorsed the overall American objectives, but disagreed with American unilateralism.

However, Chretien, who is an absolute dictator in the liberal caucus, has uncharacteristically allowed a stream of anti-American statements and criticisms from backbenchers, cabinet ministers, and PMO staff. Then when confronted with these remarks he denies that he supports them but refuses to discipline the anti-American big mouths. I can only conclude that Nero...er, Chretien, actually is quite anti-American himself, but doesn't have the guts to stand up and say so. In my opinion, and in the opinion of everyone I know, regardless of their political leanings, this delusional moron of a PM has profoundly embarrassed Canada, needlessly strained U.S./Canada relations, and indirectly insulted our best friend and ally. There's a way to respectfully disagree with friends without insulting them. I'm ashamed of my government. We could and should do much, much better.
re: Canada's stance on war in IraqAlpedhuez55
Apr 13, 2003 5:23 PM
I think you are right on. A lot of Americans were angered by some of the statements coming from Chretien and mainly his cabinet ministers. The rhetoric was a little on the harsh side at times. You can disagree respectfully. I do not think there will be any real damage in US/Canada relations though.

There is a Talk Radio Show in Boston that reaches parts of Quebec, Ontario and the Maritimes. I know that talk radio tends to be conservative, but when ever the topic of the war comes up it seems there are 2 or 3 callers appologizing for their PM. I know that is not an accurate measure of suport though.

Well, despite the politics, I am still planning on vacationing in Nova Scotia this summer and also hope to make it to Tremblant at some point for a Golf Weekend.

Mike Y.
re: Canada's stance on war in IraqAlpedhuez55
Apr 13, 2003 5:49 PM
Eric, you say:
"Why does everyone think that Quebec wants to seperate, this isn't the 1970's our prime minister and most of his cabinet are from Quebec."

First of, the 1995 referendum was pretty a close one. Saying that we think saying events from 7 1/2 years ago are from the 1970's is pretty big exaggeration. I am by no means an expert on Canadian politics though I do talk about politics with some friends of mine in Montreal, Toronto and Ottawa. I think the separatist party, Parti Quebecois, is still pretty strong but the movement may have peaked.

The poll was from a Canadian network CTV, not CNN. It was saying what Canadians felt of the war. I also think they probably have a better pulse on how Canadians feel than you do. I also do not like CNN that much either. Sorry to disappoint you.

Mike Y.
re: Canada's stance on war in Iraqdasho
Apr 13, 2003 1:42 PM
I am quite happy Canada (like France) didn't "follow" us into war because 1) they don't have a military worth the squat (and even they admit it) and 2) if a few Canadians get killed by mistake (friendly fire) such as in Afganistan, we will have to listen to their whining again. The Kurds lost 19 of their soldiers last week because of US mistake, but they know these things happen in war and got on with it. But not Canada. Get your heads out of the sand. People die in wars in case you didn't know and your trial (fiasco) and harrassment of the US pilots is unforgiveable. Your soldiers are no more precious than any one elses.

You shouldn't talk about false democracies when you live in socialist country that is one of the highest taxed in the world. Of course Canada won't spend any of that money on a military because the good old US will protect them for nothing. Canada and Europe's real fear is that a true democracy will work in Iraq and overshadow their socialistic ways.

Although the following quote from French philosopher Pascal Bruckner pertains to the French and Europe, I think Canada is so similar to them (except on a much smaller scale) it includes you.

"France is a concentrate of all the European contradictions. On the one side, they want to appear as a great and influential world power, and on the other, there is a will not to dirty one 's hands. Europe cannot offer itself the luxury of living in the middle of storms, as if she were in a sanitorium, only because it is protected by America's nuclear umbrella."

I guess you think the pathetic UN could have pressured Saddam into disarming (or North Korea) when in fact they allowed themselves to be thrown out of Iraq in 1998. The only reason Hussein recently destroyed any weapons was because there were 100,000 American "terrorists" sitting on his border.

Your government has recently called the US "a bunch of bastards" for invading Iraq and recently refused to hand over escaped Iraqi soldiers to our military. Some of the Canadian people recently booed the US while playing the national anthem at sporting events in Canada where American children were playing/visiting. We now know where Canada stands and my only hope is we never forget.

When I read posts such as yours it makes me realize how fortunate I am to be an American.
re: Canada's stance on war in IraqJon Billheimer
Apr 13, 2003 1:58 PM
You're entitled to your opinion, of course. But as a matter of simple fact, democracy and socialism are not mutually exclusive, so in your ignorance please do not continue confusing the two. You also might consider the extent to which American society is also socialized.
FWIW,sn69
Apr 13, 2003 2:16 PM
The death of those Canadians hit me as hard as any other friendly fire incident. Tragic, lamentable, and so many other seemingly meaningless words....

Also, we currently have a Canuckian FA-18 squadron at our local Naval Air Station doing dissimilar air combat training. What a great bunch of people, and they really appreciate Louisiana's only valid contribution to American society--Abita Beer (particularly the Amber, Purple Haze and Turbo-dog).

In a strange, somewhat-related story, one of my early mentors was a Canadian Air Force helo pilot who taught at the same training squadron I eventually instructed at. I'll always remember when he got selected for promotion to major and how enraged he was at the fact that he'd finally have to learn French (apparently a requirement for promotion to O-4 and above).

Yes...FRIENDS can disagree. Just keep that beotch Celine away. I don't care if she "drove all night."
You're rightdasho
Apr 13, 2003 4:27 PM
Excuse my ignorance concerning the democracy/socialism comparison. I was upset and went off on a tangent on that subject.

It seems right after 9/11 biker_eric (under another name) posted a similar thread almost word for word that created a lot of hard feelings. Especially the part about the US being the evil imperialists that deserve to be attacked.
Dasho, if you re-read my post...Jon Billheimer
Apr 13, 2003 5:05 PM
...you will clearly see that I'm not anti-American, nor are the overwhelming majority of Canadians. Please recall that it was the Canadian ambassador who, during the Iran hostage crisis, sheltered American personnel, at great personal risk, and then spirited them out of the country. Canada supported the U.S. in Afghanistan. Canadians overwhelmingly and personally supported the U.S. during and after 9/11. We took in all air traffic that day and put up about 40,000 U.S. citizens. We sent police and firemen to New York to help. We also raised funds through the Canadian Red Cross for relief for the City of New York.

Canadians, having a much more multilateralist bias since Canada is not a powerful nation, fear the untrammelled use of American power and thus have traditionally been firm supporters of U.N. sanction. This does not make us anti-American.

I further stated my dismay with the irresponsible babblings of several liberal MPs and the weak-kneed and disgraceful response of our PM. There are a few liberal caucus members and some members of our socialist party, the NDP, who are anti-American. However, they represent the views of possibly 5%, if that, of Canadians. By the same token few Canadians swallow Bush's "you're for us or against us rhetoric." There is a middle ground somewhere.
Dasho, if you re-read my post...dasho
Apr 13, 2003 5:53 PM
I read your post and I appreciate your fairness. I know most Canadians are good people like yourself and I don't begrudge them (or Americans) for opposing the war. But this talk about the US being terrorists gets to me. An Arab man being interviewed on TV said something like this the other night "this is Saddam's fault and no one elses. The US isn't attacking countries like Finland because they don't have tyrant regimes like ours." I believe this war is to prevent more 9/11 s from happening but who knows if it will.

I'm not a "Bushie" as one of the posters below assumed even though I support this war. I simply don't believe negotiations work with men like Hussein or Kim Il Jong (sp?). I agree with you 100% concerning the "you're for us or against us" attitude of the Bush administration. I don't like that kind of talk and I think it alienated a lot of our friends. I am also peeved about the US backing out of the Kyoto treaty as I'm sure the rest of the world is.

But i support the decision to remove Hussein from power and truly hope the Iraqi people end up far better off than they are now.
I'm fortunate you're American too...empacher6seat
Apr 13, 2003 5:53 PM
I'd hate to hear such ignorant comments come from a Canadian.
Canada, what's a Canada?purplepaul
Apr 13, 2003 3:17 PM
Just joking.

I don't know why, but Canada's views on the US don't really bother me. Perhaps it's because I've been there and met them, so I have my own views that aren't too effected (or is it "affected") by what their government says.

Or maybe it's because at a skate race yesterday, I saw the most gorgeous Canadian girl. Sure, it was annoying listening to her scream at her teammates in French. But, come on, with girls like that, how can you really hate them?
Oooof. (oink) nmsn69
Apr 13, 2003 3:37 PM
Oink, oink? Moo, maybe.Jon Billheimer
Apr 13, 2003 3:49 PM
When it comes to the skating oval, Alberta beef definitely is THE BEST: aka Catriona LeMay Doan. Hot, hot, hot!! And really fast, too:)-
I'll second that! nmempacher6seat
Apr 13, 2003 6:00 PM
Oink? sn69, admit it, you're really Kate Moss. nmpurplepaul
Apr 13, 2003 7:45 PM
What sound does a camel make?js5280
Apr 13, 2003 8:37 PM
Showing some toe in that pic ;-) I LIKE her, and she's far from being fat, sn69. May not be a hardbody, but she's also bent over and still looks damn good and with some really nice curves to boot. Have to admit, those Canadians build some fine athletic women up there. She probably could drop most of us faster than Iraqi holding an AK47.
I didn't want to ask that question....sn69
Apr 14, 2003 4:33 AM
Largely a matter of timing. . .js5280
Apr 13, 2003 3:53 PM
Had the war not started so close to playoff hockey season, I'm sure the Canadians would been on board ;-)

Go Av's and thank you Quebec for the Nordiques and Roy!

P.S. Go Ducks, Red Wings suck!
NOW you're finally beginning to understand Cdn. Foreign Policy!Jon Billheimer
Apr 13, 2003 5:10 PM
re: Canada's stance on war in Iraqcycleaddict
Apr 13, 2003 4:25 PM
As an American, I apologize to you, biker_eric for the tone of some of the folks on this thread. Many of us are ashamed of the arrogance the Bushies show for the opinions of those of us that choose to disagree. Considering the fact that Bush did not even win a majority of the vote.....
He won the majority of the vote in the ...Live Steam
Apr 13, 2003 4:46 PM
majority of the states. That is Constitutional! If we didn't have the Electoral College, the vote would be a joke. Most of the states of the Union would not be represented nor would they be relevant.

And please don't apologize for any of the Bushies. We don't appreciate your arrogance :O)
re: Canada's stance on war in IraqAlpedhuez55
Apr 13, 2003 6:52 PM
Well, using that logic, Clinton never won by a majority either...OK, I wont go there ;-)

Biker Eric, Please note that Cycleaddicts views on the war are shared with a small minority, about a third 3/5ths the size of the minority that elected the President. His views also represent a smaller portion to the extreme left of that minority. Also Eric, please not that more than 3/4 of the USA is behind the president on the war. There might be a few Americans who agree with your distorted view of the war, but most of Americans will find your harsh rhetoric pretty crass.
We vacationed in Jamaica last Spring and ....Live Steam
Apr 13, 2003 4:52 PM
befriended a couple from Vancouver. They said they learned how tough it must be to be American, as most people they came across in their travels thought they were from the lower 49. They said they were mistreated as a result.
Opinions are like @ssholes, everybody's got one.No_sprint
Apr 14, 2003 8:05 AM
Your opinion is just yours and just that, a personal opinion.

Facts remain. The following is indisputable fact.

The coalition is over 50 countries strong. If Saddam had adhered to his agreement with the world, the coalition would not have gone in.

Clinton instigated far more conflicts than the current administration.