|I know who plays Khalid Shaikh Mohammed in the Movie!!!||Alpedhuez55|
Mar 3, 2003 4:51 PM
|So who else looked on the front page of the newspaper and thought they saw Ron Jeremy? The mustache, the portly stature, the scragly hair, the brillo pad body hair...They could be twins!!!!
This actually seeems like an important arrest. Hopefully they will get some information from him or the others arrested with him. Time will tell!!!
|Does anyone even see a resemblence between....||PdxMark|
Mar 3, 2003 5:13 PM
|his before and after photos? I'm glad I'm not looking at faces at border crossings, or even at raids, I'd have NEVER spotted the guy.|
|Google to the rescure||Me Dot Org|
Mar 3, 2003 6:34 PM
|Ron Jeremy below. Seriously, this guy (Khalid Shaikh Mohammed)is implicated in the deaths of over 3,400 people.
He may have been able to sleep at night in the past, but I doubt if there is much sleep in his immediate future.
|More than 3400.||sn69|
Mar 3, 2003 7:36 PM
|Khalid has been AQ's OpsBoss since the late 80s. At the very least, that also makes him responsible, at least in part, for Khobar Towers, the African Embassies, the USS Cole, the first Twin Towers attack and countless single-point assasinations. And all that is before 9-11. This guys is a rabid dog, no doubt.
Unfortunately, he'll get humain treatment from our legal system. Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT in favor of torture and such. Still, wouldn't it be nice to introduce him to Tony Soprano and da boze?
|More than 3400.||Me Dot Org|
Mar 3, 2003 9:32 PM
|From what I can see of his chest and back in that arrest photo, I bet a good bikini wax session could get him talking...
Seriously, I keep hearing about how the C.I.A. has very effective methods that do not involve physical torture, but sleep deprivation and drugs. I'm not sure how I would feel about my local police department using these techniques, but the information in this guy's head could possibly save a lot of lives.
Does anyone know what drugs, other than sodium pentathol, the C.I.A. uses?
Mar 4, 2003 7:01 AM
|The exclusion of tirtured testimony in US criminal courts is to prevent the use of torture by civilian authorities. Modern society views torture as inhumane in all instances. However, the use of drugs for non-criminal interrogations, like this one, would not be unoversally condemned. What does the UN charter on human rights say about truth serum? Any of the liberals around here have copy handy?|
|I'm fairly certain that Amnesty International||sn69|
Mar 4, 2003 8:16 AM
|would be whole-heartedly against any type of cohersive methodology. In the most extreme interpretation of their philosophy, one must rely upone the good will and human nature of the detainee. "OK, fellahs, you got me fair 'n square. Now I'll spill my guts simply because it's the right thing to do." Unfortunately, that method only works in the same world with perpetual motion machines, frictionless tires and quality primetime television programming.
In truth, sleep deprivation and a constant barrage of the same questions worded slightly differently work the best. We go through a lot of that training in something called SERE school, which is a POW simulation. Physical torture will extract an answer, but possibly not the true one. People who are scared and in pain tend to say whatever they need to in order to make the pain stop. The Nazis learned that really quickly in WW2, but the Chinese didn't in Korea (often eviscerating captive UN troops "William Wallace style").
Still, the bottom line is that we CANNOT do that. There are methods that are humane and will work. Torturing scum such as this only demotes us to their level of abject cruelty. Likewise, I'm uneasy with drugs; here's why. Some of you might remember Ebro33, a french Mirage that was shot down around the same time as Forrest Gump O'Grady in Bosnia. The Mirage crew was captured almost immediately and were held for the better part of a year by Slobodan's geshtapo-goons. They were tortured and drugged...a lot. Once their return was secured diplomatically (after, I might mention, two combat SAR attempts by US, NOT the Frogs), we--WE, WE, WE (again, not the French)--filed major protests with the UN over their treatment and the drugging.
I don't pretend to know specifics on what's being done with these people, but I do know what Camp X-ray is like in Gitmo. By their standards, it's a 5 star resort. Likewise, they're far safer there than if they were to be dropped into general population in Pelican Bay or Levenworth.
Ultimately, I recognize the need for fast data extraction from these people, but I'd rather we do it using psychology, persuation and sleep deprivation. Drugs, beatings and other, more severe methods open a pandora's box and take us down to their filthy, repugnant level.
We should remain humane...and human.
|Agreed: It's about our humanity, not theirs. But a bikini waxing||PdxMark|
Mar 4, 2003 8:45 AM
|made me LAUGH!
Basic standards of human rights and the moral foundations of "civilized" society lose their meaning if we abandon them in the name of war. I use "civilized" to refer to societies, anywhere in the world, that abide by these basic principles.
If torturing captured "combatants" is legal and appropriate for us, why not for them? They've purposely targeted innocent civilians, but that doesn't mean we should. We need to beat them, and will, without losing sight of our priciples and standards of human rights.
|I too thought the bikini waxing was priceless, although||sn69|
Mar 4, 2003 9:17 AM
|it'd be a damned shame to loose such a valuable intelligence coup to the subsequent bleeding.
Perhaps we should do send him a pet pig to keep him company at his "undisclosed" location.
Mar 4, 2003 10:07 AM
|This topic was on NPR right after his arrest. They had a former CIA guy as guest. They don't use drugs, they don't work and there isn't any drug out there to "make you" tell the truth. The CIA guy said torture does'nt work either because, when your being tortured, you'll confess to anything and it isn't truthfull. What does work is sleep deprivation, making them stand in place, withholding food (bland food, just enough for the daily caloric requirement). Things like allowing sleep and good food can then be used as rewards to gain trust and build a repore.|
Mar 4, 2003 11:01 AM
|I would not lose sleep if this guy's nuts hooked up to a car battery with jumper cables, but that is not allowed. THough I am sure he would use that type of torture on one of our soldiers if they were captured. Here is a link to some storied of torture US Troops were put through in GW1:
http://www.pownetwork.org/gulf/index_gulf_war.htmusing things like sleep deprivation
Also lets not forget, some witness reports say Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is the person who killed Daniel Pearl. THat shows what al Quieda thinks of human rights. I am sure they will push the lines of what is allowed by interrogation. THings like sleep deprivation will be used. I think he is worth more to them alive though and do not think they will be too harsh on him.
|I sat in on a brief by several GW1 ex-POWs.||sn69|
Mar 4, 2003 11:36 AM
|They told tales of things as mild as severe beatings with lead pipes to more horrific things like electric shock, fracturing femurs, sodomy/rape, sodomy/rape with coke bottles, setting compound fractures with bones still protruding, beating known broken limbs and various other incarnations of human cruelty. Oddly, most of our women POWs were kept at arm's length by the Iraqis. Women tend to go into their menstral cycle automatically as a function of that degree of stress, and messing with a woman on her cycle is a big taboo over there. Thus, they were able to provide a great deal of support to their male comrade-POWs.
If you're ever interested in a profoundly disturbing insight into the capabilities of humans to inflict harm on others, read "Into the Mouth of the Cat." It's a true Vietnam POW story that is really horrifying. Likewise, I've listened to pre-recorded briefings with McCain and others. The Chinese in Korea were even worse....
Mar 6, 2003 6:19 AM
|Do you have a reference on the menstral reaction? That's the first I've heard of it (and I'm old).|
|Briefing from SERE||sn69|
Mar 6, 2003 9:54 AM
|Survival Evasion Resistance Escape school. All the armed forces have comparable schools for their folks who face high possibility of capture (pilots especially). At the Navy's, there is an academic cource that precedes the field training. During the former, among other briefers, there's a survival medicine syllabus, part of which is taught by a flight surgeon. That's where the information was disseminated about menses, which poses problems aside from POW scenarios.|
Mar 4, 2003 4:26 PM
|No more pictures fat sweaty men. I beg you.|
|How about fat, sweaty, hairy women...just to be fair? nm||sn69|
Mar 4, 2003 5:12 PM
|BLUTO BLUTARSKY LIVES (nm)||JS Haiku Shop|
Mar 4, 2003 7:41 AM
|I thought he became a senator! (nm)||sn69|
Mar 4, 2003 8:17 AM
|the paper reports him as in his late 30s||ColnagoFE|
Mar 4, 2003 8:48 AM
|Even if he's been under the bare light bulb for 3 days...The guy has not aged well...|| |