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Nobel Peace Prize(21 posts)

Nobel Peace PrizeDougSloan
Feb 28, 2003 3:13 PM
Here's the new application for the Nobel Peace Prize:
Dynamite money vs. Oil MoneyMe Dot Org
Mar 1, 2003 9:34 AM
God looks down and says, "Jimmy Carter, even though you have done more to promote peace, democracy and human rights than any former U.S. president, I must condemn you because you dared criticize George Bush. This is a man who had the courage to prevent welfare mothers in Texas from gouging the system by refusing to allow an additional $38 a month for each additional child (What did my own kid say? Suffer the little children unto me? George understands about suffering!). Not only that, George selflessly made sure that lax pollution controls were grandfathered in for unfairly chastised oil companies, helping to give Texas the worst air quality in the country. Sure Texas executes more people than any other state in the nation, but at least the dead don't have to breathe the air! Your values are all screwed up Carter. It's a Dog eat Dog Universe! Get with the program! Stop caring about people and start playing golf!"

P.S. Jimmy, the way your life is going you're probably going to hell, but there may be a way out. Would you care to make a contribution to my "Friends of God" committee? How much do you get for a Nobel Prizes, exactly? Obviously I can't make policy by listening to focus groups, but those who contribute seem to have a much higher acceptance rate into heaven than those who don't...
Your opinion is flawed IMHOhycobob
Mar 1, 2003 3:26 PM
Pres. Carter left our citizens as hostages in the name of, not peace, but wussiness. His presidentcy leaves no lasting memories save gas lines, runaway inflation, and way too many plant (jobs) closings. Every citizen is expected to question their leaders, yet the beligerant bashing the Democratic party partakes in is deplorable. This from someone raised to be a Democrat, but saw the light and now doesn't follow any party line.

As for the poor welfare mothers...close your legs and get jobs, my mother had two. Also, the Texas Atty General's office hunts down and gets dead-beat-dads (and moms too) to pay their due support.

The whole "nation's worst air quality" issue is a political line of crap. I live in the Houston area and work in a plant...you wouldn't believe the measures being made and the costs to company profits to clean up emmissions. The area's plants produce most of your fuel and chemicals needed in ways you can't begin to comprehend. You wouldn't be typing these anti-Bush snipits without the carbon monoxide I produce to make the plastic. You carry protest signs made of corogated board produced by Warehouser Paper, who pollutes Arkansas' rivers, yet say nothing about the lax,and mostly non-existant cleanup measures taken abroad.

As for the Texas Death Row...EVERY ONE THERE DESERVES TO DIE! I am sorry for those convicted mistakenly, but no system is perfect. The only thing wrong with the death penalty is that its uesd too infrequently.
Your opinion is flawed IMHOMe Dot Org
Mar 1, 2003 11:42 PM
Well let's start with the last one first:

As for the Texas Death Row...EVERY ONE THERE DESERVES TO DIE! I am sorry for those convicted mistakenly, but no system is perfect.

I'm still trying to work out how if you are convicted mistakenly, you deserve to die. I guess that what's they mean by "Texas Justice". Or as Ken Kesey said "The whole thing's the truth even if it never happened".

In most states indigent defendents are provided counsel. In Texas each district judge is responsible for appointing counsel for indigents in their district. In a poll, 25% if Texas' district judges admitted that campaign contributions do effect their appointment decisions. There was one case where a lawyer refused to consider his client's alibi, namely that was he was in jail in another county at the time of the crime. The guy spent 5 years in jail before a federal judge threw the case out. Many defendents have spent months in jail without seeing a lawyer.

The legislature overwhelmingly passed a bill that would have required counties to provide indigent clients with a lawyer within twenty days of their arrest. Bush vetoed the bill. In many places in the country, you have to get a lawyer appointed within 72 hours.

As for the poor welfare mothers...close your legs and get jobs, my mother had two.

I'm happy your mother had two legs, but as for welfare mothers, do you think a lot of them were getting rich raising children on $38 a month? Perhaps if you thought of raising your own child on $38 a month it might help. And I would remind you that, along with the rest of us, welfare children can't choose their parents.

The whole "nation's worst air quality" issue is a political line of crap

...are you saying it isn't true? I've been to Houston. If you don't think you have an air pollution problem, you need to get away more. But don't take my word for it:

http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/10/19/houston.smog/

It's not that pollution control isn't expensive, but so is the alternative.

Bush did not create pollution in Texas, but if he was as tough on polluters as he was on Welfare mothers, you'd be breathing cleaner air.
Your opinion is still flawed IMHOhycobob
Mar 2, 2003 5:11 AM
I still stand by my statement, and here is my reasoning. To be on death row in Texas you first must commit a CAPITOL CRIME...or commit murder in the commission of another felony. That doesn't leave much wiggle room. I went to jail one time in South Carolina for disturbing the peace, and swore to God, I'd never be stupid enough to do anything else to put me back. You may see this as harsh but IMHO if somebody brandishes ANY deadly weapon in the course of a crime, I think he/she deserves DEATH. They, right there, showed the world that they held no regard for human life; except there own!

I know what its like to be indigent too...I've slept under bridges...eaten 12 cent burritos for my only meal of the day...and relied on charity (not panhandling) for cloths and day labor. I lived in a 8X16ft skid shed for a year paying $100 rent/food a month. I rode a throw-away bike until I could save the money to buy a cheap '69 Ford truck to get me to a better job. Then, after getting a GED, I worked six days a week and went to night college to get a degree (3.4 avg and Phi Theta Kappa). When I worked in poor parts of town, I saw first hand the coruption in the welfare system. A welfare mom taking her kid to the store and giving each kid a $20 chit to get an ice cream and taking the change to get a 40oz and a carton of Newports. Pregnant women working the streets (w/o protection) while the kids are home watching TV. People yelling at me because they couldn't get cable TV in their rent free government housing. I can go on and on...

As to your remark towards my mother, you should be ashamed...I recommend going to your own and begging her forgiveness to attone for it. She worked two jobs and sometimes three to keep us fed. When we moved to Pasadena, TX in '79 we went to work with her a few times to her midnight to 6 a.m. job at the National Runaway Hotline, it was heart breaking, to see her that worn down.

As for air quality...I've lived in San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle, Charleston, Chicago, New London, Houston, all over Oklahoma, and various cities overseas...and its all pretty much the same. You sound like Al Gore's parrot; no one here has ever had to wear a mask to breathe like in LA or Mexico City. With urban sprawl the NOx emmissions rise and fall like clockwork at heavy drive times. EPA tests have proven this HERE. They're just so dam-ed stuck in their activist ways that they won't back down, even in the face of overwelming evidence to the contrary.
Your opinion is still flawed IMHOMe Dot Org
Mar 2, 2003 2:48 PM
I still stand by my statement, and here is my reasoning. To be on death row in Texas you first must commit a CAPITOL CRIME

Is that a crime against Austin? I think you mean CAPITAL crime. (3.4 GPA, huh...) But in your first statement you said "I am sorry for those convicted mistakenly". If they were convicted mistakenly, how did they commit a capital crime?

Texas does not lead the nation in wrongful death row convictions. That would be Florida. I'm trying to remember the Governor's name...Jeb Something...

As for air quality...I've lived in San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle, Charleston, Chicago, New London, Houston, all over Oklahoma, and various cities overseas...and its all pretty much the same.

I've lived in Los Angeles, visited Mexico City and Houston. I currently live in San Francisco. If you think Houston and San Francisco have the same air quality, it is qualitatively and quantitatively not true. Ask a doctor if he had a patient with congestive lung problems if it would be better for that person to live in San Francicsco or Houston. The City of Houston had a study commissioned which estimated that 400-450 people die every year in the city from air pollution. Imagine if there was a new drug on the streets that cause 450 overdose deaths every year. Imagine how much public outrage there would be.

But if you think Houston and San Francisco have the same air pollution, here's an EPA chart:

http://www.epa.gov/oar/oaqps/greenbk/ancl3.html

With urban sprawl the NOx emmissions rise and fall like clockwork at heavy drive times. EPA tests have proven this HERE. They're just so dam-ed stuck in their activist ways that they won't back down, even in the face of overwelming evidence to the contrary.

So people should just not breathe between 7-9 AM and 4-6 PM?

I'm not sure what your point is.

As for your mother, I'm sorry if I gave offense. I was having fun with the syntax of the sentence. I'm sure it was difficult raising children while working 2 and 3 jobs, and she has my respect for doing so. One of my best friends is a single mother of twins, one of whom has a congenital heart defect. She has a very hard life.

Texas Legislator Billy Willimson of Tyler Texas (home of an asbestos plant) once said "I think we are all willing to have a bit of crud in our lungs and a full stomach rather than a whole bunch of clean air and nothing to eat. And I don't want a bunch of environmentalists and Communists telling me what's good for me and my family"

Billy died of lung cancer.
This isn't Utopiahycobob
Mar 2, 2003 9:59 PM
And I'm not Sir Thomas Moore. But in his work "Utopia" there was the death penalty too, if my memory is correct. Thank God misspelling isn't a C-A-P-I-T-A-L offence, my Lit Prof would have shot me on the spot. But I can run a plant and produce CO and H2 with the best of them. Head over to Pittsburg, CA and ask for a plant tour at one of the facilities. Having our quality of life, i.e. consumer products, necessitates at least some modicum of trade off. In the plants we say, "molicules in=molicules out" that means when you produce something theres a byproduct. The leftover molicules are not always something we can convert easily. At one plant I worked at we took waste CO2 from a BP refinery, cleaned and refridgerated it, then sold it to Dr. Pepper and Budweiser...too bad its not always that easy. As soon as we come up with a 250 hp fuel cell truck, I'll buy it. But until then we're stuck with fossil fuels. And unless you live on Gilligan's Island, you use them too.

*****With urban sprawl the NOx emmissions rise and fall like clockwork at heavy drive times. EPA tests have proven this HERE.*********This refers rush hour traffic.
That's funnyeyebob
Mar 3, 2003 7:11 AM
Your last line was one that I hadn't heard regarding the issue before. Nice touch.
Chris Rock would agree...VertAddict
Mar 2, 2003 1:41 AM
..with your comment on the welfare mothers.

"Put the dick down!"

;-)
So what would be an acceptable death penalty error rate?Spoke Wrench
Mar 2, 2003 4:48 AM
In Illinois, when they looked into it, they found it to be over 50%. MORE THAN HALF. What's the error rate in Texas if anybody knows?

I don't have any sympathy for the murderers and rapeists, but a 50% error rate exceeds my gag threshold. We've got to do better than that.
I wish it were 0%hycobob
Mar 2, 2003 5:29 AM
The Illinois Governor's responce IMHO was wrong. Stay them until hearings can be held, yes, throw them all out, no. The harsh truth is that when a youth puts a gun to your daughter's head, to rob her or steal her car for a Saturday night's cruise for him and his buds, then shoots her dead in the road...do you think he deserves a second chance? I would hope not if it were mine. My little girl turned 12 last night and I value her life and above all. It would break my heart if she were to turn bad. But if she were to kill in cold blood or flee the scene of an alcohol induced accident (especially where somebody died) I would stand by my convictions. I am not a holy-roller but I would councel her to come right with God and face her punishment.
I don't have a problem with that.Spoke Wrench
Mar 2, 2003 8:34 AM
My issue is that when the wrong guy is convicted and executed, the real killer is still out there to kill again. When the evidence indicates that is actually happening more than half of the time, then we have a justice system that needs a major overhaul.
I don't have a problem with that.hycobob
Mar 2, 2003 10:13 AM
But what can you do when everybody (almost) says, "It wasn't me"?
That's exactly the point.Spoke Wrench
Mar 2, 2003 11:13 AM
You're living in serious denial if you think that just because we executed somebody that the crime was solved. The facts don't support that today in the majority of cases at least in Illinois. I, for one, think that it's kind of important to convict the right person of the crime, not just the first person who happens to be convenient.

When I first started reading about the death penalty project in Illinois, I assumed it was just a group of law students using technicalities to help felons escape the needle. Later I assumed it was just a rare example of an innocent person falling through the justice safety net. As I recall, however, the actual numbers are something like in 12 out of 19 cases the convicted person couldn't have committed the crime. We have to come up with a better system.
That's exactly the point.hycobob
Mar 2, 2003 11:30 AM
How 'bout we have a lynchin' when we see the crime done and a trial when we don't?

Or, we could do it like in the good old days and use the tried and true witch hunt tactic of dunking for innocense.

How about a lottery..."and this weeks winner of an all expense paid trip to Huntsville Penetentiary is..."
So what would be an acceptable death penalty error rate?4bykn
Mar 2, 2003 1:09 PM
One wrongfully executed/convicted is one thousand too many in my book. I personally think the death penalty is just plain wrong. Killing, whether done by an individual or a government, is wrong. I know this may be an unpopular opinion here, so be it.
Devil's advocate here...hycobob
Mar 2, 2003 10:07 PM
How about if its done by a physician at the request of an expectant mother?
Devil's advocate here...mickey-mac
Mar 2, 2003 10:16 PM
Why do you try to turn every discussion into an abortion debate?
Prize is meaningless anyway, since Kissinger got one (nm)cory
Mar 2, 2003 5:19 PM
And Arafat...after the 72 Munich slaughter. (nm)sn69
Mar 2, 2003 7:06 PM
Rent "A Beautiful Mind" for another view of the Nobel... (nm)KeeponTrekkin
Mar 3, 2003 10:49 AM