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More on the club incident(11 posts)

More on the club incidentKristin
Feb 18, 2003 9:05 AM
Of course the rumors are flying insanely at this point. But heres the goods so far--for those of you who are far away and yet still interested. I'm assuming local news beyond Chicago has dropped the story by now.

*The Police Chief of Chicago has stated publically that there have been long standing problems with this club.
*The Club has had 11 violations and has had its liquor license evoked.
*At least one person killed was under the age of 21. (The fight broke out at 3 am.)
*This is the club that Mike Tyson used to frequent and where he was arrested for sexual assault. Basically, not a "nice" club.
*It is rumored that the 2nd floor (the club area) was not legally open at that hour. (Only the first floor restaraunt was suposed to be open.)

Someone who was at the club when this happened, called into The Zone this morning. Of course, take this for what its worth. But some of what he said made me say, "Wow."

*Club security regularly uses mace to control crowds and break-up fights. (However the clubs promoter states that only the police used mace.)
*That "they" (I'm guessing either the security or the police) began locking the doors of the club to keep people from leaving. It sounds as if things played out like this: A fight breaks out and gets out of control. Someone starts macing to subdue the fight. Random people are sprayed and are getting sick. (The mace may also have gotten into the ventalation system.) People start to evacuate. Someone decides that this is bad because they need to catch the people who started this and need to interview witnesses. So they begin locking down the club to keep people in. Panic escalates. People die.
*There was only one exit to begin with--the two rear exits were already locked, and some people broke down the locked doors in the back to escape.

It sounds like this was one huge accident just waiting to happen.
re: More on the club incidentPaulCL
Feb 18, 2003 12:47 PM
I just heard on the news that the police will be filing criminal murder charges against the owner. Also, the first lawsuit has been filed.

Sounds like the owners will be hung out to dry. On the news a few minutes ago, they mentioned that the club was issued a court order to close last July. He had been operating illegally since that time. The owner is toast - rightfully so.

All this sounds like the Beverly Hills Supper club fire in Cincinnatin in 1980ish and the "Who" concert here in 1979. Too many people and too few doors.
Can someone who was not present be charged with murder?Kristin
Feb 18, 2003 12:57 PM
I thought that you had to physically be the one to kill the person in order for it to be murder. I was thinking they'd get charged with negligent manslaughter or something.
We should ask a lawyerPaulCL
Feb 18, 2003 1:27 PM
I'm not a lawyer...though I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night!

But why not charge them?? If the owner took an active roll by setting certain policies that led to the deaths?? If the owner ignored a court order to shut down due to the danger?? If the owner specifically ordered his bouncers to spray the crowd with maice or pepper spray?? If he ordered the doors to be locked??

To me it sounds like the guy who built the bomb, set the bomb in place, hooked up the remote switch that would detonate the bomb, but handed that remote switch to his subordinate who then pushed the button. Who's the murderer??
A guy at work who goes there sometimes was telling me....asphalt assault
Feb 18, 2003 1:32 PM
...That the use of mace/pepper spray is a common occurance at that place. When a fight breaks out the bouncers spray the area and then break up the fight. There's so many gang banger types in that place packing weapons that they don't take any chances. He says most people keep dancing, partying...or whatever when the mace is sprayed. A friend who is a cop tells me that you can develope a tolerance to it after a while. There's a rumor that sombody yelled "ANTHRAX" or something indicating a terrorist attak and that sparked the panic.

I'm waiting for the lawsuits to be filed against the city/Chicago police Dept. over this. Hilliard claims that the CPD knew the club was operating (how could you miss it?) but had no knowledge of the court order...hmmmm. I think some of Chicagos finest were being paid to look the other as usual in good ol' Chi Town.
I can't see murderDougSloan
Feb 18, 2003 1:53 PM
While physical presence is not required (remember Unabomber?), at least some intentional act by that person is, unless there is a conspiracy (agreement) to commit murder. This is probably a negligent homicide case.

I can compare it to....asphalt assault
Feb 18, 2003 4:49 PM
A DUI type case where the driver had no intent of killing anyone but was committing a negligant act by driving drunk and killing someone...just as the clubs operators were negligent in having the club open against a court order...resulting in the deaths of a whole lot of people.

I still think there's something awfully fishy with the Chicago police saying they didn't know about the court order that the place remain closed...somebody was paid to look the other way.

This is going to be an interesting case to follow.
There is something fishy about the Chicago PD in generalKristin
Feb 19, 2003 9:53 AM
I have to tell you, I don't even like knowing some of the stuff I know about the CPD. If there are cops who would give guns to gangs then there are cops who would kill people to keep them quiet. I'm thankful I'm a white girl who doesn't venture outside the loop too often. In most places the police are about protection. I don't think that can be assumed about the CPD.
corruption in Chicago? no way. nmDougSloan
Feb 19, 2003 1:58 PM
You're a brave soul....asphalt assault
Feb 20, 2003 3:45 AM
I only "live" in the loop for 8 hours a day or so and then quickly retreat to the (relative) sanity of the 'burbs. Riding the lakefront early on weekend mornings is nice though, see you out there sometime!
Fishy? HA HA HA53T
Feb 20, 2003 9:31 AM
The political power structure in Chicago is a based on an axis between Mayor Daly and Jesse Jackson. Jackson's relatives own the club. What seems to be the confusion?