|Another poll: What %age of Muslims...?||Captain Morgan|
Feb 14, 2003 5:37 AM
|In a different twist to czardonic's poll yesterday, let me turn it around somewhat:
What percentage of Muslims worldwide either support UBL, suicide bombings against civilians in Israel, or support of the Taliban?
|OK - I say 68.23546%||moneyman|
Feb 14, 2003 7:06 AM
|Ridiculous, isn't it? How am I, or anyone, supposed to know that? And how can you tell me I am wrong, without any kind of data to verify your opinion? And where would you find that data? Would a polling agency be able to get a scientific sample from Muslims in Detroit? How about Islamabad? Maybe in Jadpur? Or how about Manila? The problem with collecting that information seems pretty obvious.
Polls are fun, but ask a question that can be answered with some credibility, i.e, questions that ask for an opinion from the respondent based on his/her own beliefs and/or experiences. Asking for an opinion about a percentage of worldwide Islamic opinion is a bit silly, don't you think?
|Nope - guess again||Captain Morgan|
Feb 14, 2003 7:28 AM
|I was just piggy-backing on yesterday's theme. Based on a respondent's answer, it would provide an indication about how pervasive he/she thinks the "problem" is. Its asking the same question that you are recommending, but just in a slightly different format. I apologize if you are unable to expand your intellectual capability to these "extremes."|
|Nope - guess again||Jon Billheimer|
Feb 14, 2003 7:35 AM
|I recall a CBC report on a poll Al-Jazeera commissioned shortly after 9/11 asking people in Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia etc. if they approved of the bombing of the trade centre and if the U.S. "had it coming". The affirmative response was, if memory serves, somewhat over 70%. Numerous reports that I've seen by middle eastern journalists and diplomats consistently indicate support for Palestinian aggression and terrorism against Israel near-unanimous in the Arab world. I have no idea what Arab support for the Taliban would be but I would think it would be considerably lower, probably consistent with the fundamentalist/Wahabbi "demographic" in the middle east, say somewhere around 20% or so?|
|Nope - guess again||Captain Morgan|
Feb 14, 2003 7:52 AM
|I recall seeing college students saying that 9/11 was really an Israeli action to pin on the Arabs, but I did not know the Saudi response was over 70%.
Additionally, percentages do not quantify the threat accurately. Would you be more concerned about a 1,000-person cult with 90% of them having evil intentions, or 1% of some 2 billion religion? Even if it is a low percentage, it still is a heck of a lot of people.
|Figures don't lie, but liars can figure||torquer|
Feb 14, 2003 7:35 AM
|This bit of wisdom was passed on to me by the chief financial executive of a $40 million/year enterprise, well before any of us ever heard of Enron.
We all need to take poll results, bar graphs and social/political/economic "analysis" with a grain of salt.
|re: Another poll: What %age of Muslims...?||Alpedhuez55|
Feb 14, 2003 7:38 AM
|A friend of mine was an Exchange Student living with a German Family in the early 80s. One day the subject of the Holocaust came up. The parents said it was a was a shameful thing and Hitler was an evil man. THen they added that the Jews were ruining the neigborhoods they lived in and causing a lot of problems in their society at that time in defense of it.
I think that is an attitude of a lot of Muslims. I do not think many of them take arms against Israel or provide direct support financially to the terrorists, but if some suicide bomber were able to kill every Jew in Israel with a Neutron Bomb, they would say the deaths wrong, but would cheer it privately.
|re: Another poll: What %age of Muslims...?||Jon Billheimer|
Feb 14, 2003 7:48 AM
|15 years ago the president and controller of my company went to Saudi Arabia to discuss a business deal. Around the dinner table exactly what AlpedHuez suggested happened in conversation. One guy, upon learning my boss is German, leaned across the table, tapped him on the wrist and said, "Boy you guys really knew how to handle the Jews!" So wake up all you liberals, the Arabs truly do hate the Jews and blame the U.S. for supporting Israel. Ditto another friend's experience when peacekeeping in Gaza back in the '70s. I personally had extensive conversations with some Lebanese/Canadian businessmen a number of years ago. These guys appeared like completely reasonable, well-educated people until the subject of Israel came up. At that point their attitudes could only be characterized as completely racist and paranoid. They though Qaddafi was a nice, reasonable guy and saw no reason why we shouldn't want to do business in Libya. This was during the time when Libya publicly sponsored international terrorism. They also represented Arafat as a humanitarian and a statesman. The one guy said that Arafat was his personal hero. From a political (not a personal) perspective they were totally anti-American. I kid you not.|
|re: There are to many differing factions of islamic||jrm|
Feb 14, 2003 10:05 AM
|fundamentalism to make a generalization of ALL muslims.|
|The important issue is why.||czardonic|
Feb 14, 2003 10:49 AM
|I suspect that many people in the Arab world are happy to see anyone jab their thumb in the eye of the United States. However, I doubt that a significant percentage feel this way based on their religious conviction or hatred of "freedom". Rather, their antipathy towards the United States is based on their perception of it as an imperialist bully that is out to get the Islamic world. American culture is very popular in most parts of the world, even the Islamic world. American foreign policy is not.
For these reasons, I suspect that an unseemly high percentage of Muslims sympathize with Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein for standing up to the US. I hope that most deplore the tactics of mass, indiscriminate murder.
Israel is a different issue entirely. This is a generations old blood fued. The American media makes a big deal out of Islamic support of suicide attacks on Israel, but raraly asks what percentage of Israeli's support their governments punitive and barbaric retaliations, or questions solidarity with the IDF expressed by Americans.
In the case of the Taliban, I suspect that support is minimal.
|The important issue is why.||Alpedhuez55|
Feb 14, 2003 11:46 AM
|Good Post Czar. I agree, Israel goes too far with some of their responses. THat is a problem with Terrorism. There are not clear targets. It is not like there is a Hammas Building they can bomb. THey take it to the homes of the bombers and kill people who are sometimes just in the wrong place. I guess it is what they feel they need to do, and I think they go overboard sometimes. THen again, I may feel differently about it if I walked the streets every day looking to see if someone is hiding a bomb under their shirt. I would not want to be in their shoes.
But the the Radical Islamics glorify the suicide bombers as heroes. Saddam sends the families money. THey include anti-semitic messages in the text books and give children candy to celebrate taking of US and Israeli lives. THat is a generation of Children being brought up to beleive violence against Jews is OK. If anything the Israelis are the lesser of many evils in the region.
If Arab World wanted to handle it diplomatically maybe they should impose sanctions and stop selling oil to the US. See what happens if we have to pay $5 a gallon for gas. How much pressure would be put on Israel then? Instead they choose terror as their weapon. I think Israel tried in good faith to make the peace process work in the last couple of years, Hammas would not give it a chance to work.
I do not think our goverment or people are Anti-Islam. Bush has supported a Palestinian state and has been critical of Israel in some of their retaliatory attacks. Unfortunately, a large part of the Islamic world looks at a small portion of US foreign policy and demonizes the whole country for it.