|anyone's opinions changed from reading posts here?||DougSloan|
Jan 21, 2003 2:11 PM
|Just curious. Are we all just flapping our gums in the breeze, or has anyone actually changed an opinion or learned something signficant from reading posts here in the non-cycling forum? More importantly, has anyone ever been convinced of anything by the others who are clearly opposite of their long-held views? Any examples? Thanks.
|I doubt it, but it IS entertaining||ColnagoFE|
Jan 21, 2003 2:26 PM
|Then again how many liberals accidentally listen to Rush Limbaugh and are swayed? If anything they dig in their heels in opposition when they might not have had a strong opinion before. How many conservatives listen to anything that someone like James Carville says?|
Jan 21, 2003 3:13 PM
|Carville is at least entertaining. Did you see him with the trash can on his head election night? He's a kook, but entertaining.
If anything, I think those without any opinions at all might be swayed by someone like Rush. He can be persuasive.
|There are opinions, and there are facts. With sometimes a||bill|
Jan 21, 2003 2:44 PM
|fair amount of daylight between them.
I certainly have learned facts. I also have learned, over and over again, how little some people are troubled by facts. My father-in-law, God bless him, when confronted foursquare by a fact that cannot be reconciled with his opinion, will say, well, that's my opinion. As if his pronouncement relieves his opinion of any responsibility to the truth, completely untroubled by any desire to fit this inconvenient fact into his worldview. I think you see a fair amount of that here.
If a fact I hear is (1) demonstrably accurate (not as high a standard as all that) and (2) unable to be squared with my opinion, I like to think that I change my opinion. I probably haven't had my opinions fundamentally changed as much as I have come to think about things that I haven't thought about before in quite that way, forcing me to adapt or refine my opinion. Despite some popular belief to the contrary (just ask my wife), I don't like to be wrong, and I'd rather find a way to be right (including by changing my opinion) than be wrong.
Fundamental change, though, is beyond the scope of this board.
Jan 21, 2003 3:00 PM
|I do not think Anna Kornakova is hidding a tattoo and that is really a heat patch. ;-)
It does help to learn the motivations behind some of the opinions of the board. It is interesting to find out why some people think the way they do. I do not think I have changed my mind on things, but I do have a better understanding of the arguments on the other side.
Jan 21, 2003 3:23 PM
|When i asked if i should by Sandanista by the clash or quadraphenia by the Who those who responsed said i should buy Sandanista...i bought Sandanista.
In light of this some of the music threads are cool.
|you should have bought both albums||ColnagoFE|
Jan 22, 2003 8:08 AM
|Also to fill out your collection you gotta have the 1st Clash album as well as London Calling. You can forget Give 'em enough rope, Black Market Clash, and Combat Rock if you wish, but at least get those. Another album I really like from the Who is the Kids are Alright soundtrack. Tons of great stuff on there.|
|you are so wrong||mohair_chair|
Jan 22, 2003 8:24 AM
|I have since..||jrm|
Jan 22, 2003 10:02 AM
|Along with Combat Rock, & London Calling. Never really liked The Kids Are Alright as much as Tommy which i have.
Different strokes for different folks..
Jan 21, 2003 3:40 PM
|Not so much here, but a couple of years ago I was duking it out on MTBReview with that known atheist liberal commie academic fluffhead Dr. hoo in a typical right/left continuum. My back and forth with czardonic reminds me of the temperature of those discussions, but the difference is in the meat of the matter. hoo is an academic with a Ph.D. in sociology, and I would have my kids take his class if they went to the school where he teaches (University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire). He had a way of challenging my beliefs that made me think long and hard about what I was saying. It didn't necessarily make me change my mind, but it made me do additional work to defend my opinion. In some cases, I realized that things weren't quite so black and white and that there is a lot of grey in the world.
While posting here I like to yank chains and push buttons, pretending to be the knee-jerk reactionary so many would like to believe I am. I'm really a pretty reasonable guy, willing to discuss lots of issues and listen to opposing viewpoints. Especially when the opposition is interested in a discussion in a reasonable and open manner.
This is in exact opposition to my friend czardonic, who spews forth whatever the latest party line is from his friends at the Young Communist League in Berkley. The weightiness of his arguments is in the feather category, and he is only interested in yelling his opinions louder and louder, which obviouly makes them right.
Sorry for the personalization of the response and possible insult to czardonic, but you asked for examples.
As far as hoo is concerned, I have ridden with him and he stayed at my house for a couple of days. I even let him talk to my children, without fear of his indoctrinating them with his pack of socialist/atheistic lies! He really is a great guy.
Jan 21, 2003 4:54 PM
|I thought you were just a blowhard with a penchant for flaming people in unrelated threads when they poke holes in your right-wing boilerplate. Yet, now I see that you are a very reasonable, sensitive and above all intelligent guy who only appears to support or subscribe to asinine ideas and opinions for the purposes of parody.|
|you did not change your mind because you have no mind...||dr hoo|
Jan 24, 2003 7:48 AM
|... to change. Sure, a brain, but the higher functions are clearly impared. Plus your kids are flawed and rude, asking for help on a project and then never even saying thank you!
You're ok for a blind faith, ignore evidence, reactionary, money grubbing capitalist pig dog yourself. Except you don't ride dirt enough. Some things cannot be forgiven!
Jan 24, 2003 1:26 PM
|Where did YOU come from????????????????????????
Do you check the spelling on your mind-numbed students better than on your posts??????
Are you and czardonic related? Or worse yet, is/was he one of your mind-numbed students?
|I check out rbr once every few months, and what do i find?||dr hoo|
Jan 25, 2003 3:10 PM
|YOU, obsessing about ME!
That is really, really, sad. Have you considered therapy?
|Yes I want to buy an SUV now.||carnageasada|
Jan 21, 2003 5:41 PM
|NO. Just kidding. But it was nice to see people on this board admit they had one and why they drove them when it's so non-pc now. I was surprised to learn that my dodge grand caravan gets only a few mpg's (18 mpg in town) better than some SUV's.|
|Yup, Occasionally||Jon Billheimer|
Jan 21, 2003 6:04 PM
|I gain information from some of the informed argument here on both sides of issues. However, I have gained a greater understanding (I think) on the American administration's case for war in Iraq due to Scott's informed discussion. Not that I'm for American unilateralism, but I do think I have a sense of why the urgency in this particular case.
For the most part my personal disrespect for the hardline ideologues on both the left and the right has been reinforced though. The patented knee-jerk reactions from polarized "conservative" and "leftwing" advocates and the namecalling that often ensues speaks, to me at least, of the intellectual bankruptcy of programmed left/right debates. The world is really not black and white but usually multiple shades of gray.
Jan 21, 2003 8:01 PM
My/our fears are motivated by a far different set of standards. We fear what we may some day have to fight, and, frankly we'd rather do it on our terms now. Does that mean we want to fight? No...not if it can be helped. Interestingly, if Hussien somehow abdicates for exile, I would like to state now for the record that he will die of a "heart attack" or some other such nonsense within his first year out of power, much like Aidid did after we withdrew from Somalia.
In any case, a wise man once said to be wary of anyone who not only wears upon his sleeve the entirety of his beliefs for all to see, but also forces you to view them through his eyes. Bot--all sides have something to contribute to the argument. Sometimes we learn from those whom we oppose. Sometimes we only gain more belief in our paradigms. Still, the only real tragedy is when we stop learning.
I like the shades of gray comment in spite of the unintentional Monkeys reference. Speaking of music...why would anyone have to choose between The Clash or The Who? It's America--buy both! ...Then play them in your SUV's CD changer (tee hee).
|Basically, we're flapping our gums, Not that||OldEdScott|
Jan 22, 2003 5:47 AM
|there's anything wrong with that. It can be fun.
I think the only 'new' insight I've come to here is that Republicans/conservatives may very well have the best interest of Blacks at heart with their race/economic policies. In years past, I've figured they were just closet racists who didn't give a sh!t, and I think in years past that was probably true. Nowadays -- well, maybe the Bushies' 'compassionate conservatism' spin is getting to me. But at least on this board it seems I've heard some sound and apparently heartfelt arguments that the conservative approach would be better for the Black community.
Not that I agree, mind you; I just think the belief is genuine.
Other than that, no; you right wingers are all a bunch of retards. ;-)
|Ahem - your insensitivity is showing||moneyman|
Jan 22, 2003 7:56 AM
That word has been relegated to the same woodpile as the "N" word and other derogatory descriptors. Really. It suggests that someone who has a disability is somehow less worthy of repsect than the rest of the population, and it should not be used even in joking. Really.
|Liberal irony. nm||OldEdScott|
Jan 22, 2003 8:23 AM
|Never attribute to malice. . .||czardonic|
Jan 22, 2003 10:19 AM
|. . .that which can be adequately explained by misguided conservative beliefs.|
|Always attribute to malice...||DougSloan|
Jan 22, 2003 10:23 AM
|...anyone's misguided attempt to control your life.
|Indeed. Long live freedom of choice. (nm)||czardonic|
Jan 22, 2003 11:20 AM
Jan 22, 2003 7:25 AM
|If you're talking about swinging from one side to the other, I can't say that has happened for me. But "changed" doesn't have to mean "invert."
The only opinions I really feel strongly about are: 1) nothing is black and white, 2) simple answers to complex questions are rarely correct and/or complete. So I am constantly in the grey area on most things.
Often opinions are based on wrong information or misinformation, and I have definitely been educated on a few things here. But some opinions have been reinforced, too, when I see the sheer idiocy/hypocrisy/myopia of those on the other side.