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Where does this board fall, liberal-conservative?(21 posts)

Where does this board fall, liberal-conservative?OldEdScott
Jan 21, 2003 9:57 AM
My vague sense over the years has been that it's pretty right wing. But maybe that's because Doug Sloan posts on politics so much, and TJeanloz' market-economy posts are so engaging, in a fresh-faced capitalist/idealist kind of way. They frame a pretty reasonable and coherent argument from the right that has defined a lot of the discussion here.

(Of course, there are a few predictable snarling right wingers here who are really just rabid anti-taxers and don't do any thinking in-depth beyond that. They're like Muzak in the background, vaguely of the right but not very meaty about it.)

Lately, though, it seems I've noticed more liberals coming out of the woodwork to engage on the issues. A year ago, you wouldn't have seen so many people call Doug on his anti-Hollywood/George Clooney rant. He got swarmed pretty good, by the historic political standards of this board.

So the question is: Is RBR drifting to the Left? Are the Reds taking over, here as surely as in Hollywood?
I have always seen plenty of LiberalsDougSloan
Jan 21, 2003 10:04 AM
I've not noticed much change over the years. I think the perception is largely based upon who happens to be posting. As you note, some people are purely knee-jerk party-liners, and some are more thoughtful.

Not everyone is entirely one way or the other, either. My anti-death penalty and Libertarian stands are hardly conservative dogma.

I do enjoy your input. You are one of the more thoughtful contributors. I would be boring if we all agreed. Besides, the truth is usually somewhere in between.

Doug
uh...DougSloan
Jan 21, 2003 10:05 AM
"It would be boring..." :-)
Just for the hell of it,OldEdScott
Jan 21, 2003 10:26 AM
since you mention your departures from dogma, here's something I depart from my Red Comrades on: Affirmative action. I'm against it. Period. I thinks it's insulting and paternalistic, and if I were black I'd resent the hell out of it. Largesse from the Massah. I shouted Black Power in the 60s and still do. Affirmative Action encourages Black Passivity.

We all have our ideological quirks.
Oh, you see Liberals everywhere. It'sOldEdScott
Jan 21, 2003 10:30 AM
a vast left-wing conspiracy out there! ;-)
Yeah, but you see liberals under your bed...Silverback
Jan 22, 2003 8:58 AM
To me, the board seems narrowly right-wing with a few moderate-to-liberal voices. But maybe that's just because the right wingers make more noise.
I'd say the board is drifting left...Dave Hickey
Jan 21, 2003 10:06 AM
Anti-War, anti-SUV, anti-Bush photos, and justifing Hollywood's actions. It's leaning left.
Healthy mix on both sidesAlpedhuez55
Jan 21, 2003 10:18 AM
I think the debate is pretty good here. For the most part I am a conservative, but do not always fall long the party line. I think the chance of war is just bringing out a few more people on the left and right.

Mike Y.
I have no idea,TJeanloz
Jan 21, 2003 10:58 AM
It's really hard to put people in "liberal" and "conservative" boxes, and it just encourages people to stop thinking for themselves and start repeating rhetoric. I think the board generally has a pretty solid cross-section of viewpoints, and while we have some representatives from the far left advocating violent socialist revolution, I haven't seen much from the far right. But on the whole, I think it varies topic-by-topic, and has more to do with individual values than anything else.
Labels are for simple mindsFunston
Jan 21, 2003 11:14 AM
I take offense with any attempts at being categorized. I'd rather say I'm for this issue and against that issue, and open for change, without the weight of any kind of "ISM" pulling or pushing me in whatever direction they want me to go. In short, I'll steer my own boat, thank you. So to the sloans and moneymen and czardoniques of the board who occasionally lob shells at each other from their predictably polarized bunkers, I say get over it and ride your bike.
Ha53T
Jan 21, 2003 11:45 AM
You're a soccer mom. Take that!

Seriously, I'm a Goldwater conservative. The only time I see people resist being labeled conservative or liberal is when they have no idea what a conservative is or what a liberal is.

Doug went so far as to say that his liberatarian views are not in line with conservative dogma. That is absurd. Liberatrian ideals, strict construction and state's rights are central to modern conservative politics. It's the moral majority who are out of line and marginalized when they try to expand the role of government to promote their own religious beliefs. They are the Johny-com-lately's of the Republican Party, not you. Do not let that crowd disuade you from flying the conservative standard.

Funston, when you make up your mind about this issue and that issue, do you have any political principles to call on? Do you have any ideas about the virtuous role of government in our society? I'm assuming the issues you mention are in fact political issues, where the role of government is usually what is under debate. If you are going to steer your own boat, remember there are other craft out there. You will have to get in line, or give way to avoid a collision.
You're pulling my teeth, 53TFunston
Jan 21, 2003 12:00 PM
Sure I have principles that are pretty basic that may trump the liberal or conservative stand. Beyond those, I reserve some flexibility. However depending upon the subject (environment, justice, social issues, politics) I have tendencies. But I try to keep an open mind, and not get so bogged down with a viewpoint whereby change would be impossible. Things do change.
Actually, I think they're necessaryMcAndrus
Jan 22, 2003 8:27 AM
It's the way humans think and there's no avoiding it. We each categorize everthing we see, hear, and touch so as to be able to make sense of it all. Without categorization everything becomes pure white noise and we're unable to make any decisions or take any actions without sorting through the snowstorm of details. And it's not just in politics, it's in science, engineering, religion, the arts, et al.
I vote on issues, not along party lines. But what do I know. nmRhodyRider
Jan 21, 2003 11:51 AM
I vote on issues, not along party lines. But what do I know. nm53T
Jan 21, 2003 12:03 PM
There's only one candidate who agree with you on all the issues. When will you declare your candidacy?
Yikes! My past would NOT stand up to such scrutiny...! (nm)RhodyRider
Jan 21, 2003 1:43 PM
Started out conservativeKristin
Jan 22, 2003 10:00 AM
I was a conservative because I was told I should be by my church and I was taught that this was the right thing by the bible college I attended.

But the more I think about this politics and really delve into the issues, they all seem to lead back to just one question...how much control should a government have over its people? How much control does it need to have to function well? How much control is too much control? Since I still don't know the answers (for myself, as I realize this is a personal issue must be addressed individually), I find myself on the fence, not knowing exactly what I support or believe about politics. I'm just trying to figure it all out.

I will say this...Thank God I was born into an era where not only am I allowed to think about politics and discuss the topics openly. But I can actually have a say in them.
controlDougSloan
Jan 22, 2003 10:12 AM
Unfortunately, both parties want to control various aspects of your life, but in different ways. The Libertarian party is way out in left field shouting "we're for less control," but not many listen. Where's the political gain in running for office only to claim you'll do nothing, essentially?

As I see it on the control issues, here's where the parties largely stand:

Liberals want to control: markets, product regulations, "hate" speech, school curriculum, your income (taxes and deductions to implement social goals), school admissions (affirmative action), business practices, public religious practices, environmental practices (e.g., what you drive)...

Conservatives want to control: abortion decisions, "moral" behavior (at least more so that Liberals, generally), trial court judgment amounts, drug policies...

I'm drawing a blank; anyone want to fill in?

Doug
Types of conservativesMcAndrus
Jan 22, 2003 11:24 AM
Let's see if I can take a shot at the separation of conservative types.

Free market conservatives - believe in capitalism in every instance and have little concern for moral issues. All issues can be resolved by the market. Most likely to believe in small government and closest to Liberterian. Best example: Milton Friedman.

Cultural conversatives - most likely to believe in bigger government as an institution of control. Best example: Pat Robertson.

Foreign policy conservatives - tend to be almost liberal on moral and economic issues but want an aggressive and, indeed, dominate America in the world. Best historic example: Scoop Jackson. Best current example: Bob Dole.

Nativists - known in the 30s as isolationists and now best represented by Pat Buchanan. Opposed to almost all international efforts and favor traditionally Anglo-European morals and policies. Don't care much about economics at all except where it impacts issues like illegal immigration. Best examples: Pat Buchanan and Ross Perot.

Libertarians - are often lumped with conservatives by liberals as Libertarians believe in almost no government. Liberatarians hate to be called conservatives. Conservatives see Libertarians as naive idealists. Best example: Dick Armey.

Am I missing any types?
Neo-conservatives128
Jan 22, 2003 1:12 PM
Definitions change, so fwiw:

Close to your 'foreign policy' conservatives sans the imperialist angle I suppose.

Neo-cons basically '60's liberal intellectuals gone haywire (many Jewish and strong Zionists). Well not really, as the Left agenda failed to keep up with the changes, many defected. They support strong foreign policy, almost hawkish but believe in exporting the ideals of US liberalism/Constitution without destroying foreign cultures/economies. Culturally liberal, fiscally conservative. Socially critical and activist. They like long walks, quiet evenings at home, and maintain a strong work ethic.
Theocrats (nm)czardonic
Jan 22, 2003 3:01 PM