|is there a Hollywood/Liberal double standard?||DougSloan|
Jan 20, 2003 8:27 PM
|So George Clooney can poke fun at Charleton Heston's Alzheimer's, then justify it saying that Heston deserves the ridicule due to his NRA involvement.
Can you imagine the wrath if someone poked fun at a celebrity Liberal's physical ailment, or an "insensitive" remark?
Liberals decry people who are "mean spirited" and "insensitive", right? Tell me there is no double standard here. Or, is Clooney clearly wrong?
I get so tired of hearing from these Hollywood/Liberal types, with all their narcissism, arrogance, and hypocrisy. Boycott the idiots.
|Not a very kind thing to say about Heston's condition...||rwbadley|
Jan 20, 2003 9:00 PM
|Whatever you might think of the man (Heston), it would seem cowardly and ill tempered to poke him with a stick when he least needs it. Clooney was clearly wrong.
I recently saw a movie called 'Bowling for Columbine', and liked the message and the delivery right up till the point Moore ambushed Heston at home by pretending to be a sympathiser for 'the cause'. That was uncalled for and a really stinky thing to do, in my book.
Shaq O'neal recently made some comment about the Chinese b'ball player that landed him in hot water.
Howard Cosell made his infamous remark about 'looka the monkey go'.
We all know of the recent flap over a remark made at an old man's party.
I think we as humans are rather disposed to making comical, idiotic, and sometimes unkind statements.
I, myself made a rather idiotic statement earlier this evening that I am regretting. The thing about it is, it won't be in the paper or 'net tomorrow, so I won't have that to worry about. I think that is what separates the famous and 'watched' from 'us'. Hallelujah...
|and most people admit when they are wrong||DougSloan|
Jan 20, 2003 9:11 PM
|Good points. We all make mistakes. You feel bad for yours, and I have for mine. We admit it.
Clooney doesn't feel bad. He tried to justify it. He didn't apologize. That's what separates his kind from us.
|I'm not sure Hollywood type and liberals have a||OldEdScott|
Jan 21, 2003 7:10 AM
|monopoly on saying rotten things. If I had the energy this morning, I'm sure I could dredge up six or twelve or fifty rotten things said by folks who admit to being politically conservative, then tar and feather 'conservatives' in general because of it.
On a side note, humor can tend to have a dark and shocking side. You laugh in spite of yourself. I find the original joke in terrifically poor taste, but in the abstract, there's humor in it. Ronald Reagan got laughs by saying, supposedly, that the good thing about Alzheimer's is, you get to meet brand new people every day. The greatness of the human condition is we can laugh about even awful things.
It's the later comment -- "He's leads the NRA, he gets what he deserves" or whatever -- that is genuinely troubling. He's so blinded by politics that he's demonizing an individual, wishing him ill, for having opposing politics. As a liberal myself, I condemn that. Hell, we're all Americans. Even Hollywood liberals are Americans, just like conservative California lawyers.
|I tend to agree||DougSloan|
Jan 21, 2003 8:56 AM
|I agree, the original comment wasn't nearly as bad as the "justification" attempt. That changed it from potentially just a bad joke to a serious, mean spirited, callous, error in judgment.
I can rest more easily now knowing at least someone agrees the remark was inappropriate, rather than trying to justify it.
BTW, I don't think you'd have to go "dredging" to locate similar remarks by conservatives -- they'd be in the headlines.
|I meant dredging in my head ...||OldEdScott|
Jan 21, 2003 9:05 AM
|which is a little fuzzy this a.m. You know, all us liberal-types got together yesterday and smoked too much crack celebrating the MLK birthday ...|
Jan 20, 2003 9:36 PM
|Clearly Clooney doesn't speak for the Democratic Party, less clear is whether he speaks for American Actors. Though he does seem to fit the mold of someone who doesn't grant those who oppose him the decency he otherwise believes everyone should be given. Do liberals have a monopoly on this behavior? No. But are a majority of the (public figure) offenders on the left? I'd argue yes, but I'd also argue that this a direct result of the American news media. That is to say, even though a majority of Americans support gun rights, Clooney knows the mainstream news media believes as he does and probably won't call him on his insensitive remark. Which is why there wasn't a big fuss in the major papers about Senator Murray's remarks that America would be better off if it acted more like the great man Osama Bin Laden. I doubt Clooney would be so cavalier if the media was more neutral or to the right.|
|Doesn't that imply they have standards?||js5280|
Jan 20, 2003 9:42 PM
|Sorry, don't know any Christopher Reeve jokes off-hand to test out your theory. . .|
Jan 21, 2003 12:58 AM
|the real double standard is with corporate power, fraud and malfeasance and those that serve their interests - but it's easy to take your eye off the ball and get the cheap shots in while you can - it's called misdirection
BTW Clooney is clearly wrong
|Very Poor Taste||Alpedhuez55|
Jan 21, 2003 6:52 AM
|It was a very ignorant statement. You do not make fun of someone's condition like that. It is in very poor tatse. Make a statement on your gun control position if you want to. But making fun of someone's ailment is means spirited and just wrong.
I hope Heston makes some sort of statement to respond to this. I think he is still capable of responding. It would be nice to see him call Clooney on his statements.
|Heston will show up @ Clooney's door, rifle in hand... nm||rwbadley|
Jan 21, 2003 7:49 AM
|This is such a tired argument||mohair_chair|
Jan 21, 2003 7:11 AM
|A guy makes a dumb comment and suddenly he represents all of Hollywood? Oops, sorry, all of "Liberal" Hollywood?
If there is a double standard, it is in your own mind. Can you honestly tell me that no one from "conservative Hollywood" has ever made a similarly stupid remark? Do you honestly believe that remarks of this type have anything to do with politics?
Talk about hypocrisy. I am so tired of people slapping the "liberal" label on anything or anyone they don't like, as if it were a slur.
|It is, but,||TJeanloz|
Jan 21, 2003 7:19 AM
|Considering that Clooney is currently among the 4 or 5 most active Hollywood types in politics, there is a bigger burden on him to do, and say, the right things. It is difficult to hear him say that George Bush is a gangster, and is verbally bullying people, and then to have him similarly bully somebody. It's a situation of "I'm taking the high road, and criticizing the people on the low road, as long as nobody actually pays any attention to what road I'm on."
How would he feel if somebody made a crack about lung cancer, of which his mother recently died?
|I think the point is, Clooney can be idiotic, but||OldEdScott|
Jan 21, 2003 7:27 AM
|that's a separate issue from his 'liberalism.' Some people on this board just want to bash liberals at any opportunity, and here comes one! Clooney says something stupid! Yay, I get to bash liberals!
Hell, it's easy to do that. On EITHER end of the spectrum, or in the middle. People of all stripes say obnoxious things all the time. Sheesh.
|It is, but,||mohair_chair|
Jan 21, 2003 7:34 AM
|That was his aunt, Rosemary Clooney, who recently died. She went through a terrible period of her own in the late sixties. I don't know what was said about her then, but I'm sure not all of it was kind.|
|What about Lott tied to all conservatives or southerners?||DougSloan|
Jan 21, 2003 8:26 AM
|It seemed many people were more than anxious to tie Lott's statements to all conservatives, Republicans, or southerners. That's the double standard I'm talking about.
Further, where are any Liberals publicly denouncing what Clooney said? None.
Jan 21, 2003 8:41 AM
|Lott was an elected leader of the Republican Party, and major influence on party policy and strategy. He's also a leading conservative. So it's assumed and expected that he speaks for the party and for conservatives. Maybe he doesn't represent all southerners, but I see no double standard. Lott chose a career path that put him in the public eye and required him to self-monitor his comments. As a top leader in the party, he knew that everything he said would be analyzed for meaning. He doesn't have to like it, but he accepted it when he took the job. So it's his own fault if he says something stupid that gets him in trouble.
Clooney is just an actor/director who appears in films, who also has political views. He holds no elected posts. He has no established constituency. He represents no one but himself. When he says something stupid, he only risks alienating ticket buyers.
|still, who is denouncing him?||DougSloan|
Jan 21, 2003 8:53 AM
|I've not heard even one public comment, except O'Reilly (where I heard of this), about this. What would have happened if a Schwarzeneger had made a similar comment about someone? There would be picketing at his next movie opening and it would be all over the news. That's the point I'm trying to make, which seems to be getting lost in the hair splitting.
|who needs to?||mohair_chair|
Jan 21, 2003 9:10 AM
|Is there anyone who doesn't find Clooney's comments offensive? I do. My grandfather had the worst form of Alzheimer's for years before he died and it is a terrible, terrible thing.
But Clooney is just a guy whose comments sometimes get in the paper. What he does and what he says has no effect on my life or the lives of everyone else, except perhaps a dozen or so of his personal employees and studio executives.
There's no punishment that can be made here. All we can do is ignore him and not watch his films.
As for why it isn't in the news, maybe it's because entertainment news is focused on the Golden Globes and the Superbowl right now. Anything unrelated is going to be buried, but not because of liberals.
|Doug, you're so far out on that liberal-conspiracy ladder...||Silverback|
Jan 21, 2003 8:39 AM
|...that sometimes I wonder if you can even see land. It's astonishing to me how one-sidedly you view things like this and how quick you are to lump everybody who disagrees with you into the same cesspool. ONE actor makes ONE idiot remark, and you condemn "these Hollywood liberal types" with the "narcissism, arrogance and hypocrisy"? Give us a comment on the narcissism, arrogance and hypocrisy of Dick Cheney, or of Bush with his promises about the environment and his compassion, won't you?|
|the double standard is the issue||DougSloan|
Jan 21, 2003 8:48 AM
|It simply appears to me that Conservatives get annihilated for any inappropriate comment. Liberals almost get a free pass, no matter how mean spirited or idiotic the comment. At best, they are over looked, and appear never to be condemned by other Liberals.
I'm not lumping everyone together in the same cesspool, at least no more than dozens of nationally known public figures did about Lott. After his comment, you would think the entire white south had suddenly been exposed for being secretly racist. I think this shows a clear double standard.
|Heh heh heh - LOL! nm||cyclopath|
Jan 21, 2003 8:59 AM
|Maybe we could have a blacklist!||OldEdScott|
Jan 21, 2003 9:00 AM
|You know, all these Reds in Hollywood ... get a list together ... smear their reputations for political reasons ... make it so they can't work ...
Wait, we tried that, didn't we?
|How about Arnold, Sylvester and the like?||ColnagoFE|
Jan 21, 2003 9:03 AM
|Sure Hollywood is pretty liberal, but you do have a smattering of Republicans as well. Idiots are idiots regardless of political affiliation.|
|They know better than to cross that line||Alpedhuez55|
Jan 21, 2003 9:45 AM
|There are better ways to make a political statement than making fun of an Alzheimer's patient. It would also be nice to see the media call him on it. Maybe he will find a better way to make his argument. Maybe even get him donate a portion of his new movie to Alzheimer's research.
Some Hollywood types have been called on their statements. Alec Baldwin was on his "Stoning Henry Hyde Comments" and Woody Harrelson was booed at a parade During the Gulf War for some of his statements, Jane Fonda has been criticised for her statements and actions, Rosie O'Donnell has also been pointed out as a two faced on gun control.
I think for the most part, you do not hear the Republican idiots in Hollywood make this type of statement. I have been trying to think of a few statements by the conservative types and not much comes to mind. I may be wrong so if anybody has some please post some examples. I am sure some of them say stupid things, we all do. There is just a line that people should not cross and maybe they pay better attention to it.
|I agree with you.||No_sprint|
Jan 21, 2003 10:05 AM
|I live right in the middle of it too. I boycott the outspoken idiots by not going to or renting or buying their movies. Clooney is one of the worst. Lump him with Alec, Streisand, Aniston, DeNiro, etc...|
|I'm not a fan of Heston's either||carnageasada|
Jan 21, 2003 10:05 AM
|I thought Brando would have been much better in Planet of the Apes.
But even if you are a movie star and you make idiotic comments like Clooney just made. Well, thousands, no hundreds of thousands, of people who have seen loved ones go through that terrible disease will be angry. Clooney was rude and showed no class whatsover. While it probably won't kill his career, I wouldn't be surprised if Clooney's box office clout will never be the same again.
|maybe he's made enough $$ and doesn't care? nm||DougSloan|
Jan 21, 2003 10:07 AM
|Will you PUHLEASE give it a rest, Doug? The liberal media||bill|
Jan 21, 2003 11:05 AM
|thing is so bogus. When airtime is actually analyzed, mainstream media is pretty evenhanded, and, when you go just a little off mainstream, with the Rush's and the Gordon's, and the Ollie's, and the Bill's, it is dramatically overweighted to the right. Dramatically. Even so-called liberals like Chris Matthews are hardly liberal.
Please don't argue with me about the leanings of mainstream media without facts, because it is silly. Yes, surveys of journalists show a slight lean to the left in personal views. Where the rubber hits the road, though, where broadcast decisions are made, no such leanings have ever been documented. The opposite, really. The people in power get a fair amount of negative play, whether it's about George or Bill or Tom or Dick (Gephart) or whomever. And, when it isn't balanced, it's hardly leftist. George has got almost a complete bye, and the media was merciless on Clinton. They called Ronnie the Teflon President for heavens sakes, because, among other things, he actually sat there and said, geez, arms for hostages, really? I just didn't understand, really I didn't, and he got away with it. Whether it was because no one had any trouble believing the guy was a liar or no one had any trouble believing the guy was a dope I'll leave to you to figure out. Leftist media? Hardly. And, while a fair number of talking heads have liberal leanings, studios and media companies are pretty fricking conservative.
Give the conspiracy thing a rest, Doug. It simply does not exist, however fervently you may believe otherwise.
As for Clooney's line, it's a take on an old joke. In a decidedly meanspirited fashion. But, when some dopey actor makes a dopey, meanspirited joke, it is still just a dopey actor making a dopey, meanspirited joke and is hardly news. I haven't heard about it, and I don't care much either way. I had no clue of Clooney's political interests or whatever until you brought it up -- all had been beneath my radar.
And I'll say this, notwithstanding Heston's never having himself avoided an opportunity to be inflammatory about liberals or non-conservatives, it was still a low blow.
If Ted Nugent ever developes some awful disease, though, all bets will be off, because that guy NEVER pulls a punch.
|I'd be curious to know if Clooney's insists his. . .||js5280|
Jan 21, 2003 11:27 AM
|security entourage not carry guns? That's the double standard I'd be curious about. However, most celebrities are so far removed from reality, I severely question their ability speak for normal society. I'd venture most Hollywood celebrities principles are based primarily on their publicists. Money in Hollywood is founded on broad popular reach, if millions didn't watch movies and television, there wouldn't be million dollar salaries. Hollywood wasn't always liberal, there was time when it was very conservative, pumping out patriotic, almost propagandistic, movies when the general population was much more conservative. Nowadays, society is much more liberal so it's natural for Hollywood to reflect that.
Forget the celebrities, how about your politicians? I think you can see the same things with politicians nowadays. Society has shifted toward the center. Liberals are a little bit less so, and Republicans have gone way left. I don't think a pre-Reagan Republican would even recognize a Republican now. Although raised in a very conservative family, I'm very cynical of both republicans and democrats. I believe they've both sold out on there principles in interests of broad appeal so they can maintain their positions of power to reward their friend and punish their enemies. They don't have principles, they're sell outs. There are obviously some exceptions, but not nearly enough. The pendulum of change is slowing quickly toward a static tyranny of the expedient majority.
I have a lot of respect for Charleton Heston. Being the President of the NRA takes balls, especially if you come from Hollywood. However, he did it because he has principles and knows the importance of the 2nd Amendment to past and future of this country. He's more an actor than Clooney will ever be; an Oscar, Golden Globe, 2 Lifetime Achievement awards, and a AMPAS Humanitarian Award to name a few. Regardless, the vast majority of celebrities will always be out flapping their gums to promote their next endeavor or stay in the public spotlight. Take it as a grain of salt. Clooney should stick to what he's best at; looking pretty and endorsing Dapper Dan hair products. . .
|Hey, don't go bad mouthing uncle Ted!||Turtleherder|
Jan 21, 2003 11:40 AM
|Just because he wants a gun in every hand and road kill on every plate? (That's a joke son) Why is everyone so touchy? It was a dumb comment, big deal. Yes he should not have made light of Heston's condition, it was in poor taste and it was in even poorer taste to not apologize. But why would you listen to Clooney? How has he demonstrated that we should in any way value his opinion? As for those "liberal Holywood types" does anyone actually listen to Barbra Striesand? The difference between the treatment of Clooney and Lott, is that Lott is an elected offical and a spokeperson for the republican party. He botched the apology and his record indicated that his attempted apology was less than sincere. When a high ranking member of either party says something stupid the craps going to hit the fan. It also seems to me that some of the people that jumped on Lott the worst were members of his own party. It's not like this was the first time that the republicans have ripped one of their own, same thing happened before with Gingrich.|
|Gives new meaning to making a mountain out of a mole hill||velocity|
Jan 21, 2003 12:29 PM
|When Heston and the NRA hold rallies in communities just after they've suffered the effects of gun violence (Colombine, etc.)THAT'S insensitive.
Clooney's remark is meanspirited but I think Mr. Heston is tough enough to take it.
|re: Hollywood is a joke..||jrm|
Jan 21, 2003 4:01 PM
|What is said and done by actors and actresses means only something to those that know nothing and follow popular culture in order to build there own belief system.|| |