|Proud to be a Conservative?||rwbadley|
Jan 15, 2003 12:12 PM
|I was driving our local highway this AM and saw a Humvee towing a trailer. In the back window of the Hummer was a large sticker with the saying "Proud to be a Conservative"
Without starting a Liberal/Conservative bashing thread, I would like to put my thought on this to you for your feedback.
This person was "proud" because? I am trying to figure out why. His 'conservative' principles allowed him to amass the fortune needed to drive a $70k three ton vehicle getting 7mpg? Uhm,
Conserve, conservation, meaning to use carefully, or to protect from depletion.
Conservative has a similar root word and meaning; taking it further, to oppose change or be traditional in style, not showy, tending to conserve etc. My grandparents were conservative. They made do or did without. They had money, but were of a time when waste was abhorred.
When did 'conservative' morph into (my mental image) a cigar chomping, overweight, middle-aged white guy with much money and the willingness to spend it on a rather large drain of natural resources?
I (again) do not intend to offend any here, I know hackles will be raised by this, but please tell me how a person that is 'proud to be conservative' would be not a hypocrite on this manner. Or what the new meaning of conservative might be.
|conservative vs. conservationist||DougSloan|
Jan 15, 2003 12:37 PM
|Main Entry: 2conservative
1 a : an adherent or advocate of political conservatism b capitalized : a member or supporter of a conservative political party
2 a : one who adheres to traditional methods or views b : a cautious or discreet person
Main Entry: con·ser·va·tism
1 capitalized a : the principles and policies of a Conservative party b : the Conservative party
2 a : disposition in politics to preserve what is established b : a political philosophy based on tradition and social stability, stressing established institutions, and preferring gradual development to abrupt change
3 : the tendency to prefer an existing or traditional situation to change
Main Entry: con·ser·va·tion·ist
: a person who advocates conservation especially of natural resources
Main Entry: con·ser·va·tion
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin conservation-, conservatio, from conservare
Date: 14th century
1 : a careful preservation and protection of something; especially : planned management of a natural resource to prevent exploitation, destruction, or neglect
2 : the preservation of a physical quantity during transformations or reactions
|conservative vs. conservationist||rwbadley|
Jan 15, 2003 9:14 PM
|Thanks Doug for the literal meanings and etymology.
If we use earliest Latin foundation for the word from the 14th century, the root word history still has little to do with the current meaning of the word as I saw displayed on the back of the Hummer. I have been in one of these things, and I can tell you there is really little purpose for one of these in any typical lifestyle. I guess I may be passing judgement on the owner of this rig but...
I have no problem with an SUV used for a purpose the owner deems appropriate. I would give grudging recognition to the fact that we may need this vehicle for some purpose. That, in our society, is left up to the buyer. This is part of our freedom, God bless us.
I have spent my adult life in an occupation saving energy for others, on a residential, commercial and corporate scale. I figure I have hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of barrels of oil (equivalent) savings in my credit (or bank?) I guess to see a blatant disregard for my energy expenditure on a life scale thrown away by a generally oblivious, uncaring or misinformed general population really 'chaps my hide'
This is preaching to the choir here, I'm sure, as cyclists we may tend to be more in tune than some others to environmental concerns. I am surprised at the way 'environmentalist' is tossed out as an epithet in our society. We should all be environmentalist in thinking.
We do not save the world for others, we save it for ourselves. The planet will survive us, of that I am sure.
|meanings of words, etc.||DougSloan|
Jan 16, 2003 7:53 AM
|I wouldn't get hung up on the meanings of the words. They are what they are, not what they should be. Conservative and conservation have nothing in common, and more than liberal and liberty, do. Words frequently evolve far from the original meaning.
"Environmentalist" became a slur largely due to the particular people and tactics used by some over the last 30 years. Spiking trees, hippie looking pot smokers protesting, throwing paint on women in fur coats ... you get the picture. The people and tactics overwhelmed the message. Also, these people tended to use hyperbole and exaggeration frequently, and lost credibility. While no doubt the earth is a better place to live as a result, they just sort of looked like nuts in the process. They might have achieved the same results other ways, and looked less kooky. I don't know.
Few people championing resource preservation are as consistent and lacking hypocrisy as you. The hypocrit Hollywood crowd now pubicly decrying SUV's are driving, or being driven, in the damn things every day, flying around in private jets, and living in multiple 15,000 square foot houses. They have zero credibilty. Of course, they are better than us, and deserve do waste resources.
Let he who is without sin... Ya, right.
|My favorite conservation groups||Alpedhuez55|
Jan 16, 2003 8:16 AM
|I think the two best conservation groups out there are Trout Unlimited and Ducks Unlimited. Both are strong lobbyists for clean air and water. Both have bought thousands of acres of wetlands and forests and turn them over to the government to manage as recreatonal areas. They also fight to protect other wildlife areas from development.
These groups do not go grandstanding for headlines like Greenpeace or Earth First. THey work more on a grass roots and local chapter level. I think they are very effective in doing so.
I am neither a hunter or a gun owner. I am a fly fisherman though. I think both of those organizations do great work to preserve our wildlife, forests and wetlands.
|Pride goeth before a fall. nm||carnageasada|
Jan 15, 2003 12:44 PM
|call it like you see it||Funston|
Jan 15, 2003 1:08 PM
|Conservative, conschmervative. It's just another word whose meaning gets stretched and reshaped over time until it becomes meaningless. Better to live one's life contemplating words with more enduring qualities, such as "right" and "wrong". I'd say you've done a pretty fine job of letting your sense of the meaning of the word "right" not fool you into accepting that guy's interpretation of the word "conservative".|
|Ya, like liberal shmiberal. nm||Sintesi|
Jan 15, 2003 7:08 PM
|I saw a Hummer with a Greenpeace Bumper Sticker||Alpedhuez55|
Jan 15, 2003 1:32 PM
|I do not think we should judge someone by the car they drive. Last week I saw a Hummer with a Greenpeace Bumer Sticker. Chevy Chase and Robert Redford were publicly telling people they should not drive SUVs, when they drive them themselves. Does this make them closet conservatives, hell no. Same holds true for Senator John Kerry in Massachusetts.
I do not think that SUV drivers should be demonized. I do not like them myself, but people should have the right to drive them without being stereotyped or blackballed. I guess if some people have their way, SUV drivers are going to become this decade version of smokers.
|judging bad judgement||Funston|
Jan 15, 2003 2:03 PM
|Excess is excess, no matter what the bumper sticker says. Driving a Hummer is akin to wearing a mink coat IMO. Many alternative choices exist which both work and are kinder to the planet/ecosystem.|
|Don't forget Norman Lear...||Dave Hickey|
Jan 16, 2003 7:12 AM
|Norman Lear produced the anti-SUV commercial yet he tools around in a Gulf Stream IV. It takes a lot of SUV's to equal the fuel burned by a G-IV|
|You're in for it now, Ron---you stirred up DougSloan.||cory|
Jan 15, 2003 2:53 PM
|Personally, when people ask me why I'm liberal, I tell them my conscience won't let me be anything else.|
|You're liberal? ;-) I just thought you were 'right' nm||rwbadley|
Jan 15, 2003 3:04 PM
|I think it has more to do with limited government||ColnagoFE|
Jan 15, 2003 3:14 PM
|at least the political meaning...you can dress conservatively but still be a bleeding heart liberal politically.|
|re: Proud to be a Conservative?||jrm|
Jan 15, 2003 4:05 PM
|its opposition to change, the protection of the status que and the romantic ideals of governing that are founded in the 40 and 50's. How can that be good?
I like to think of myself a Libertarian stylist...
|re: Proud to be a Conservative?||mickey-mac|
Jan 15, 2003 4:31 PM
|"I like to think of myself a Libertarian stylist..."
Where is you salon located? ;-)
|Modern Conversative = Classical Liberal||McAndrus|
Jan 16, 2003 6:07 AM
|One of the advantages of age comes personal experience with social trends as they change.
When I was a youth (yes, I can actually remember the 50s), a liberal believed in personal freedom and opportunity. A convservative espoused statist control of social institutions (like schools) to control culture.
Modern conservatives prefer individual liberty and personal opportunity. Modern liberals prefer equal results and state control to ensure them. These positions have exactly reversed since my youth.
When I was younger I called myself liberal. As a youth I was an avid John Kennedy supporter and I voted for George McGovern. Then somewhere in the 70s I noticed the changes where liberals (i.e. Democrats) began preferring state-imposed solutions to problems and conservatives (i.e. Republicans) began espousing individual actions.
I like to think that I didn't change but that the politics changed around me.
It's very common to hear expressions like "don't put a label on me." Unfortunately we must use stereotypes, predujices, and cliches to communicate.
Those who don't pay attention believe conservative and liberal mean today what they meant in 1950. They don't.
|Interesting to note that many of the radical 'New Left' kids||OldEdScott|
Jan 17, 2003 6:25 AM
|of the late 60s were first drawn into politics by -- not JFK -- but Barry Goldwater in '64.
Goldwater's always been my idea of a 'true' conservative.