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another example that Bush is an idiot - article(42 posts)

another example that Bush is an idiot - articleMJ
May 30, 2002 1:33 AM,1518,196865,00.html

Gibt es Schwarze in Brasilien?

US-Präsident George W. Bush wird nachgesagt, vor dem 11. September habe er die Taliban für eine bayerische Blaskapelle gehalten. Nun hat sich der Präsident der mächtigsten Nation der Welt dank seiner umfassenden Bildung wieder einmal kräftig in die Nesseln gesetzt.


Rice half Bush aus der Patsche

Washington - Es war Condoleezza Rice, Nationale Sicherheitsberaterin der USA, die ihrem Chef aus der peinlichen Lage half. Bei einem Gespräch der beiden Präsidenten George W. Bush, 55, (USA) und Fernando Henrique Cardoso, 71, (Brasilien) hatte Bush seinen Amtskollegen mit der Frage verblüfft: "Do you have blacks, too?" ("Haben Sie auch Schwarze?")
Rice, 47, die bemerkte, wie erstaunt der Brasilianer ob der Frage war, rettete die Situation, indem sie Bush aufklärte: "Mr. President, Brasilien hat wahrscheinlich mehr Schwarze als die USA, man sagt, es ist das Land mit den meisten Schwarzen außerhalb Afrikas." Brasiliens Präsident Cardoso urteilte hinterher: Was Lateinamerika betreffe, befinde sich Bush "noch in der Lehrzeit".
for those of us who don't speak Germanweiwentg
May 30, 2002 2:55 AM
US president George W. Bush is after-said, before 11 September it regarded the Taliban as a Bavarian blowing chapel. Now the president of the most powerful nation of the world sat down owing to its comprehensive education again once strongly into the Nesseln. AP Rice helped Bush from the leave in the lurch Washington - it was Condoleezza Rice, national Sicherheitsberaterin of the USA, which helped its boss from the embarrassing situation. With a discussion of the two presidents George W. Bush, 55, (the USA) and Fernando Henrique Cardoso, 71, (Brazil) Bush had astonished its colleague with the question: "DO you have blacks, too?" ("credit it also black ones?") Rice, 47, those noticed, as the Brazilian surprises whether the question was, saved the situation, by clearing Bush up: "Mr. President, Brazil has probably more black one than the USA, one says, it is the country with most black ones outside of Africa." Of Brazil president Cardoso judged afterwards: Which Latin America references is, Bush "still in training".
he once asked 'is our children learning?'weiwentg
May 30, 2002 2:55 AM
the answer, obviously, is no.
for those of us who don't speak GermanMJ
May 30, 2002 5:06 AM
I love those on-line translation services - they always get it just in the ballpark but leave you wondering what you're really reading

if I was going to write science fiction scripts I would send the (alien) dialogue through one the translators a few times

one alien race could be an English to Russian to Spanish to English mix - while another could be an English to Finnish to English to Finnish to English - etc.
I agree...this made NO sense...nmBikeViking
May 30, 2002 5:13 AM
May 31, 2002 8:40 AM
I'll translate it for you:
The most powerful nation on Earth elected the most retarded human on Earth.

Kinda fitting, actually...
my limited comprehension...lonefrontranger
May 30, 2002 6:43 AM
I spent a year living in Germany and my friends there speak far better English than the teachers I had in my redneck rural school so I didn't learn much German. However, even my *extremely* limited comprehension can pick out the incredulity in this article. The first paragraph merely states that prior to 9/11 the U.S. regarded the Taliban as a marginal threat; the idiom "bayerisch" has negative connotations of "redneck", maybe like the splinter white supremacist / survivalist groups we have here in the States, anyway...

The huge faux pas created by Bush was basically he asked the head of state in Brazil "gee, do you have blacks in Brazil?" In the context it was made, it was taken as an incredible gaffe of white chauvinism (sp?).

Sigh. The Germans dearly love the prats the U.S. presidents make of themselves. "I am a donut" indeed.
my limited comprehension...MJ
May 30, 2002 6:47 AM
yeah - and the Brazilian president replying that they have the most blacks of any country outside of Africa was priceless - really he shouldn't be let out
That's very harsh...muncher
May 30, 2002 8:04 AM
He might have meant by weight, or as a proportion of chewing gum consumed annually, or in relation to the number of marmosettes kept domesticially for their milk yeild. I think they are both just working on a higher plane that we don't understand.....
boy, no kidding!mr_spin
May 30, 2002 8:57 AM
I don't understand a word he is saying, except for the line "Do you have blacks, too?."

Was he drunk or high?
boy, no kidding!BikeViking
May 30, 2002 11:21 AM
It is my duty to cast some cold water on the Bush bash-fest...other than this "odd" article, has anyone seen/heard/read about this anywhere else? Our media loves bashing him and I have not heard a peep out of them yet, so I am skeptical of this for now.

Perhaps this is a bit of Internet "urban legend?"
your conspiracy theoriesMJ
May 31, 2002 12:57 AM
constantly amaze me - the US press is not left wing - it does not criticise Bush - and in fact is reflecting the entire US population's amnesia about his incompetence and extreme right wing policies without a mandate - since Sep. 11 the US media have had kid goves on for Bush and his ilk

give a few examples of Bush getting 'bashed' in the US media - you should try and restrict yourself to examples of bashment rather than reporting facts - it's not a journalists fault if Bush screws up (again)

what exactly of this article are you sceptical of? do you not 'believe' it because it's from a foreign news source? - maybe you should look at the URL - or get a copy of Der Spiegel next time you're in a foreign language news/book shop - for the record Der Spiegel is a well known German periodical - roughly the equivalent to 'Time'

it may surprise you to know that we get alot of stuff reported about the US that fails to get a mentioned in the US media - well it may get reported it reasonable papers (NY Times, Washington Post) but as most Americans don't read those papers for their news sources and only watch local news or CNN in the belief that it's 'international' (it's not by the way) then it hardly surprised me you won't have heard of it

if you want to hear people/press/media critical of Bush then step outside your narrow little USA bubble and look at some news sources that are outside the US and reflect a different approach and global perspective

internet urban legend or ignorance - you decide
your conspiracy theoriesBikeViking
May 31, 2002 6:06 AM
You must still be one of those people still pissed about the Florida re-count. If so, GET OVER IT!!!!! EVERY recount done since the election STILL show W. would have won. I believe the Supreme Court was also right, but that is my opinion.

THere was the infamous story about W. waving to Stevie WOnder, which turned out not to be true. It's easy for you to say I can't see outside my USA "bubble", but you refuse to acknowledge that your disagreements with him and his policies are OPINIONS, yet your personal attacks are ceaseless. I read a wide wariety of Internet news sources and STILL have yet to see ANYTHING about this alleged faux pas. It may have happened, it may not have happened, but you need to get out of your Bash Bush bubble and see that. One news source does not a fact make. I guess the Washington TImes and the NY Post don't count as "reasonable" papers. Oh wait, they are "evil right-wing extremist" papers. Your political bias is quite evident.

People distort stories every time it goes in their ears and leaves their mouth. Something MAY have occurred, but I do not take one news source as fact.
May 31, 2002 6:29 AM
dude, MJ is British, why would it matter to him what the Florida recount showed?

It's true, take it from someone who lived in Europe. A lot of stuff gets reported in the international / Euro press that the spin doctors in Washington can't control. "Freedom of the press" when it pertains to the foibles of the commander-in-chief only goes as far as the Beltway media doctors allow it to.
May 31, 2002 6:56 AM
yep - had a US friend who lived in Germany in 1989 - the US had attack helicopters in El Salvador which were shown (with US markings) on German TV firing on a village - unsurprisingly it didn't make the pages back in the states - it was never even acknowledged

lots of stuff happens that doens't make it back to the US
May 31, 2002 12:47 PM
Our media LOVES to uncover things like this. YOur single opinianated anecdote does not refute the fact the original story MAY (it may also be true) be FALSE!! Like the waving at Stevie WOnder Story, it was reported JUST LIKE this story you speak of. But further investigation found it to be FALSE!!! That is why I am skeptical of such an outrageous story. But I am willing to entertain some sort of NON-BIASED evidence.

YOu love your "facts" when it comes to heaping on W. it 's quite a blind spot.
your conspiracy theoriesMJ
May 31, 2002 6:54 AM
...uh, try reading Der Spiegel or any other German language paper... (fact)

I didn't realise this was a discussion of 'facts and news articles that Biking Viking has heard of' - I'll try and keep that in mind (opinion)

if you discount Der Spiegel as a news source - or that in order for something to be referred to as fact it must appear in multiple sources you've read then you're missing some fairly obvious reasoning skills - thankfully the rest of the world is not bound to facts on the basis of what you know and have been exposed to (logic)

what does make a news source? how many news sources make a fact? do they have to be US based sources to count? what about if they've been translated? (do web translations count?) if two news sources contradict each other who decides which is news and which is a lie? are other people prevented from thinking something is news if you haven't read it yet? what if it's in a language you can't read? (presumably on this basis nothing happens in Greece for example - except when there's an American correspondent there...) (question)

Bush may have won the election according to the electoral college (fact) - but he did not receive a mandate to introduce his extreme policies (fact) - in order to introduce such extreme policies a leader normally requires a landslide victory (usual custom/convention - many examples - I can even give some US ones of you want)

I don't care about Stevie Wonder stories or anything else that gets mentioned in People magazine - that's not news or a relevant example of an unkind US press - that's light entertainment (fact)

hey you know what? if you work for the military and you're not posting under Biking Viking at Home that means you must be at work - do you consider your time on this board an egregious waste of of tax payers money? - is it more or less egregious as welfare payments to single mothers? if I paid taxed in the US I'd be pissed (funny)

but the balls to post so often about how 'you're tax dollars this and your tax dollars that' is very amusing indeed - do you see a contradiction? (very funny)

so are you gonna answer any of my points (in this post and the last one) or tell me more Stevie Wonder stories
can youy give any examples of how much the US press hates Bush and is always critical?
another TKO? - nmMJ
May 31, 2002 8:23 AM
I think not...BikeViking
May 31, 2002 12:56 PM
Try unemotionally sticking to the debate, not your need for having a "scorecard"

You're not worth the spike in my blood pressure, so don't flatter yourself thinking you are somehow "superior" because you declare yourself the "winner"

That's pathetic
I think not...MJ
Jun 5, 2002 3:22 AM
so you have no answers is the point of a TKO

I only call myself the winner because you have dropped all of your 'points' in this thread - that's capitulation/surrender - in my book that means you no longer hold your points and that you have conceded them (well you may think you're right but you can't argue coherently about them)

if you didn't bring up such ridiculous (and often offensive) points and try to defend them so vigorously you wouldn't have anybody calling you on it

and BTW feel free to address the wastage of tax dollars by government employees posting from work whenever you get around to it... (your answer doesn't have to apply to you - it can apply to a fictional governmental employee other than yourself)
your conspiracy theoriesBikeViking
May 31, 2002 12:51 PM
YOur interest in my work schedule is interesting and has nothing to do with the post. Trying to obfuscate the issue with attacks on me is par for your course.

Stick with one point and I will get to it.
re: Like i needed a second example...jrm
May 30, 2002 1:20 PM
Geez...i prefer "Tool" myself..
Just proves that you can be dumb as a fence post and...Sintesi
May 31, 2002 6:12 AM
still be a great president. I trust that this man has a good compass. So what if he blows at geography? That's why he has a cabinet of experts. Does anyone really care what Der Speigel writes? What do they say that is positive about G. Bush? Just curious.
in the adult worldMJ
May 31, 2002 6:35 AM
journalists don't have a need to report good and bad things - they just report facts - most of the German speaking world cares what Der Spiegel writes

this fact indicates that not only is George Bush fantastically ignorant - but that thiose around him aren't doing a very good job advising him if he isn't getting the right briefings

if you're happy with a stupid/ignorant president - that says alot about you - do you like bad food, poorly fitting clothes and ugly women too?

on what basis do you trust he's got a good compass? I trust that this man is without a compass - he's certainly without a basic knowledge that is a prerequisite for most world leaders and global statemen - it's actually embarassing for him (and the US)

it's far more than a failing in geography...
You know what?Sintesi
May 31, 2002 7:06 AM
You're snide and judgmental. You're British aren't you? Bush is mostly doing the right thing with foreign policy and domestically. He's got back bone and speaks forthrightly and he's proven himself to be a genuine leader. He passed the test my friend. So he's a little ignorant. Everyone is. You don't have the right to judge someone on every little mistake. you don't know how or why that quote came into being, perhaps he mispoke and he didn't mean it to come out the way it did. Has that ever happened to you? And when it did (I know you've said stupid things before because everyone does) would you think it fair for all your friends to proclaim your idiocy? Is this valid criticism? Why don't you criticize his policies instead of harping about your superior intellect and his inferior knowledge? Why be a predictable, envious American-loathing crank? There is a big picture to notice here. Don't you think America is a tremendous force of good in the world? That it completely outweighs all the bad in the final analysis?

I challenge you to list 5 positive things about Bush. Don't be sarcastic either.
You know what?MJ
May 31, 2002 7:27 AM
1. lots of people like Bush (that's gotta be good - he's very approachable and seemes like an average guy)
2. he's from Texas (Texas)
3. his daughters are hellions (red blooded up for it girls)
4. he was a hellion (red blooded American male)
5. he can run a pretty fast loop around Lake Austin (fitness is good)

if it was one mistake that'd be fine - but it's an avalanche - and maybe it's just me but I expect more out of the leader of the only superpower left - perhaps if he was less forthright, spoke less and listened more he'd come off a bit better

'a little ignorant' is never an asset in a global statesman is it?

when I say stupid things I expect my friends to make fun of me - it's a good laugh - what do you do when your friends say stupid things? - ignore it?

we are under an obligation to judge elected officials - it's called voting

I have certainly not avoided critiquing his policies in previous posts

where I live/my nationality is not important to accurately and objectively assess information - in fact it may enhance that ability

I think America is a force of good - it is not however the only force of good - in fact it is often a force for strife and conflict (just as other nations are) - it can undoubtedly be a better force for good - while you may like to think of the US like this - most Americans do - most foreigners don't think this way about the US - the article mentioned above is a good example as to why - we could mention substantive things about unwaivering US support for Israel (who are the terrorists again?) and how the US plays in the middle east - or anywhere outside North America

I do not loathe America

snide and judgmental - British - not actually related points - care to develop this with some 'we saved you in the war(s)' (four years late for teh first one and three years late for the second one actually), 'you'd be speaking German if it wasn't for us', 'Paul Revere and the Boston Tea Party Founding Fathers' bollocks (they were all English anyways)

I don't know if you/we should be embarrassed or scared
You can't do it can you?Sintesi
May 31, 2002 9:56 AM
5 positive things that aren't sarcastic. You're being smug and trivial.

I'll take back the British comment. But you're still snide and judgmental.

No one said America was the only force of good. And no one made a comment about saving "your ass."
You have a way of trying to characterize every one of my arguments as hopelessly provincial and narrow minded. It's called straw man. Or Ad Hominem. take your pick. And it doesn't wash.

You're wrong about us (and so are "most" foreigners if they agree with you), our president and our role in the world. We are a force of good. Great benefactors. Not perfect but better than the world has ever seen before. That's a fact. We don't act alone and we have many friends and a good deal of help from the world community. They do like us and value us. Many (like you) look to us for leadership.

maybe we should have stayed out of Bosnia because we don't get much credit for it.

We did not cause the Israeli/Palestinian crisis and we are not going to end it. However, we are about the only country willing to take a leadership role in seeking peace. Europe is notariously anti-semetic; the Israeli state pretty much solved their "Jewish question." Well that and the Holocaust. The UN okayed the Israeli state and as far as I can see abandoned them once they left for the levant. Don't judge my country for trying where all other do very little.

Why doesn't the UN vote to set up a force to get between the beligerents and protect Israel's borders that they themselves legitimized? Where is European leadership? They need to be more potent and less strident.
You can't do it can you?weiwentg
May 31, 2002 3:58 PM
> Europe is notariously anti-semetic

there is anti-semitic sentiment among certain sections of the population. that does not equate to anti-semitism. I would be surprised if Europeans in general disagreed that what happened to the Jews during WWII would happen again. but this is my opinion.

> The UN okayed the Israeli state and as far as I can see abandoned them once they left for the levant.

the first part of your statement is correct, but it is not the whole story. they okayed a Jewish and an Arab state. both of them would have received roughly equal proportions of what is now Israel: 60-40 in favor of the Jews. for a long time before the UN resolution, there was large-scale Jewish immigration, which was against Palestinian wishes. violent acts were committed on both sides. after the UN resolution, the Jews unilaterally proclaimed independence. in the war of 1948, they conquered 77% of Palestine and most of Jerusalem. over half of the Palestinians fled or were expelled. In the 1967 war, Israel conquered the remainder of this land, and generated another Palestinian exodus. Jewish settlers began moving into the occupied territories. Security Council resolution 242 called on Israel to withdraw from the territories it had seized. On 22 November, 1974, the U.N. recognized the rights of the Palestinians to independence, sovereignty, and also recognized their right of return.
In June 1982, Israel invaded Lebanon with the intention of eliminating the PLO, to which the U.N. had given the status of observer in the General Assembly. PLO troops withdrew from Lebanon, and Israel surrounded the refugee camps of Sabra and Shatila. Lebanese Christians were allowed to massacre Palestinian refugees in those camps.
In 1983, the International Conference on the Question of Palestine adopted several principles related to the Geneva Convention. They condemned the establishment of Israeli settlements in the occupied territories (one of the principles of the Geneva Declaration is that no nation may acquire territory by force, and the government of Israel not only conquered Palestine but encouraged its people to establish settlements there), recognized the right of all states to live in secure boundaries, and recognized the attainment of the legitimate, inalienable rights of the Palestinians.

the Israelis are a colonial, occupying power. I'm sure there are some who will call me anti-semitic (I'm Christian, so that wouldn't work) but this is the truth. the Palestinians have ample blood on their hands, but Israel started this.

> Why doesn't the UN vote to set up a force to get between the beligerents and protect Israel's borders that they themselves legitimized? Where is European leadership? They need to be more potent and less strident.

I, too, wish this were the case. but no peace can be a peace without recognizing the rights of the Palestinians.
You know what?weiwentg
May 31, 2002 8:37 AM
> He's got back bone and speaks forthrightly


> Bush is mostly doing the right thing with foreign policy and domestically


> Don't you think America is a tremendous force of good in the world

I would dearly like to say yes.
the section of the population which is a force for good is, sadly, NOT the government for the most part.
What are we doing that is wrong?Sintesi
May 31, 2002 9:33 AM
What are we doing that is wrong?weiwentg
May 31, 2002 3:46 PM
on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the government's support of Israel cannot be justifiable. Israel's arms subsidies should be revoked until it can learn to treat the Palestinians with respect. check the UN resolutions - the international community has determined that the Palestinians have the right to return, and that Israel must return to their pre-'67 borders. Israel has refused. the US has refused to make them - it's armed them instead.
in the Iraqi conflict, the sanctions imposed during the fighting were complete. nothing was allowed to get in. this is morally unjustifiable. even now, the Iraqi people - mainly childred - are suffering.
in Bosnia, yes, Slobodan deserved to die, probably slowly. but Yugoslavia's civilian infrastructure did not have to be decimated.
your government practically gave Indonesia the green light to invade East Timor.
your government refused to help the Kurds in Iraq - Saddam was allowed to slaughter them.
in Latin America, the US has consistently interfered with popularly elected governments. basically, left-leaning governments were deposed.
the government is not merely unwilling to enforce Kyoto. the government blatantly disregards it.
your government has yet to ratify the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, basically because some states wish to put youngsters to death. like Napoleon Beazley - there is no justifying his crime, but there is no justifying his execution. he was 17. the Convention is clearcut on that issue. there are many more conventions the US has not ratified, but that's the only one from off the top of my head.
That's the best one yet!muncher
May 31, 2002 11:20 AM
"You're snide and judgmental. You're British aren't you?".

"America completely outweighs all the bad in the final analysis"

Classic stuff! I bet Bush is glad to have you on the team, and he's welcome to it.

Congrats - that really does take some beating. I admire your personal efforts to close the divide between the US and all the people who hate it - that attitude should really help the terrorism situation.
That's the best one yet!Sintesi
May 31, 2002 12:05 PM
I meant that the good my country does does outweigh the bad it has done entirely. Sorry if my bad writing makes it seem otherwise. You guys jump to a lot of conclusions. No breaks given. So I clarify.

BTW, MJ is snide and judgmental. I take back the British comment. It was just a joke. HAHA? Was it funny to you when MJ used the term honky? HA HA?

You don't know the first thing about this country I'm starting to believe.

I got faith in Bush. It doesn't make me an idiot or jingoistic nationalist to say so. I'm a patriot. I respect our president. Proud to say it. You guys are so brazenly prejudiced it's laughable. Bush owes nothing to me for his presidency, I haven't voted Republican in ages. Nevertheless, Republican does not = fascist, uncaring, stupid, reactionary, isolationist, backwards, whatever... He's far more complex than you give him credit for.

You two think you got it all figured out. You don't. You're arrogant and condescending.
Jun 10, 2002 6:53 AM
You got that all our of my one post - you really must be even more of a genuis than you make out...
Why don't you just own up and say something.Sintesi
Jun 11, 2002 7:03 AM
It wasn't just your one post. please. I was referring to MJ as well, who will at least engage in a dialogue.

You act like you don't know what I'm talking about. You imply that I'm some sort of an idiot, and you dismiss me without defense. What is your game? You just like to type snide and diffident?

All I've gotten out of you is pot shots. If you got something to say say it.
This thenmuncher
Jun 12, 2002 3:06 AM
I post one post in reaction to your insane, nasty, zenophobic, childish and insulting comments on nationality, and you respond with this equally morally and intellectually vacant personal abuse - and then, it appears, to try to blame me for other peoples' posts/views, calling me "snide and diffident".

What I say is that you are a stunning hyporcrite, and a most unpleasant person to have the misfortune to come across.

Is that clear enough for you? Now go away and learn some manners.
Baloney. You read all your replies to me. Not just this post.Sintesi
Jun 12, 2002 8:13 AM
If I called you snide and "diffident" its because you stuck your nose in an argument and your only contribution was to imply that I was some sort of stupid ass. As in no substance, just personal judgements on my character. that is all you've done in this thread. You won't even try to reason.

How dare you, personal attacks? Insane? unbelievable. You are snide, everything you've posted smacks of superiority. And you don't back it up. I've been nice to you so far. How am I the hypocrite? You're the one that started getting personal.

I don't deserve this abuse. AT ALL. Do a search for my name and you'll see how rotten I am.

As a matter of fact, I gave YOU friendly advice before when you visited NYC. You want to be my enemy? That's your affair but it has nothing based on reality.
Muncher, I don't like your false characterisations and your hateful crap. You do not know what the hell you are talking about or who you are talking to. Period. I feel sorry for you because I don't remember ever reading such a blatantly mean spirited post here ever.


and LOL.
Oh I see.muncher
Jun 12, 2002 9:09 AM
You are just a barking mad viscious lunatic. It all makes sense now.

You are right - I don't even try to reason with people like you who are just plain off the rails barking mad.

Get some treatment before you completely disappear up your own @ss.
You are a troll. A very little troll.Sintesi
Jun 12, 2002 9:35 AM
A very very little troll. Sorry I didn't realise. : )

You will grow to like me muncher and later, yes, agree with me. We will become friends, great friends. I wish you well in the land of big clocks and mushy over-cooked vegetables.
Jun 12, 2002 9:48 AM
You have absolutley no idea - why do you think they call me Muncher?

You don't have clocks? Makes sense I suppose, as even if you did they would show the wrong time, seeing as GMT is THE only correct time....

Vegtables? I only eat raw meat.
May 31, 2002 8:50 AM
agree with you more.
Star Wars Missle Defence = No compass

I remember once he refered to the Spanish language as "Mexican"...
MJ.......BAHAHHA.....Don't let up...But.....CARBON110
Jun 4, 2002 5:19 AM
Anyone who has not been outside he USA ( ie EUROPE ) especially won't understand the perception of experience you have. I have lived and been in Europe and it is another education entirly. In any case yu must admit your argument is untimely. There are warnings in the paper and on the news everyday now. SO everyone is a little sensitive. I agree with you that he is the village idiot and certainly does not have the criteria to be USA's #1 man during this crisis. Hopefully though he wont screw it up before the next election. I would not put it past him though to say something stupid like that....the stevie wonder story is very funny though and demostrates that our fearless leader is questionable when comes to a rediculous story like that everyone puts their hand on top of their head and says to themselves...hmmmmm....its possible. LMAO. Now that we even consider he may have said something like that is enough for him to not be entitled to have the power he has. Its not about bipartisanship etc....we should have someone who is more intelligent than the people who work for him to be our EXAMPLE to the world.