RoadBikeReview.com's Forum Archives - Non-Cycling Discussions


Archive Home >> Non-Cycling Discussions(1 2 3 4 )


to lease or to buy a vehicle????(26 posts)

to lease or to buy a vehicle????grant
Oct 30, 2001 7:54 PM
what do you guys think... i need/want a new toyota truck.

would you buy or lease???

i know i can trust your advice.. afterall we all ride bikes!!!!!!!!

thanks!
well...Bruno S
Oct 30, 2001 9:44 PM
I just leased one but it is really highly personal. My reasons were that I could afford much more car since it was a special priced leased from the manufacturer. My wife is about to finish college and soon we'll have a double income. If I wish to keep the car after the lease is over it shouldn't be too difficult for us. Or I may just return it if its not holding up.

But with all the low APRs being offered it is a good time to buy or lease a new car.

The following web site is very good. Specially the excel spreadsheets that let you calculate lease payments.

http://www.carbuyingtips.com/
re: to lease or to buy a vehicle????Canada
Oct 30, 2001 11:16 PM
We leased a van, it's already miled out,still have 8 months
left on lease at .12 per KM. The lease got us into a loaded
Montana when we could only afford a plain Chevy Venture. I'll
buy what I can afford from now on.
If you do lease make sure you get enough miles. You can pay
a higher lease rate but get more allowable miles.
I prefer......4bykn
Oct 30, 2001 11:50 PM
buying. In fact, I just bought a new F-150 3 days before the attack on the World Trade Centers and the interest rates went to zero. I like the feeling that with each check written a little bit more of the vehicle belongs to me.
Depends on your circumstances.......Len J
Oct 31, 2001 5:15 AM
and your intentions.

If you have predictible milage & intend to always ride a new car, the leasing is usually better. You can get more car for the same money, you can set up the lease for different milage levels (My wife's lease is for 18,000/yr) and as long as you take care of the car, you turn it in at the end & lease something else new. You keep that multiple thousands down payment in the bank earning interest.

If you drive crazy high milage or intend to not replace the car for a period longer than normal leases (3 to 4 years) than it usually pays to buy.

Of course, this assumes that there is no emotional attachment to owning your own car.

Len
One other thing......Len J
Oct 31, 2001 5:22 AM
If you lease, & you like the car, you can always buy it at the end of the lease. I just came off lease on a 99 Acura 3.0cl. The original sticker was $32,000, the residual (or buyout) was $15,600, Lease payments for 3 years were $373/mo. Current trade in value is between $17,000 and $19,000. Current retail value is $16,500 to $17,000. I bought it from Honda after offering them $14,700 and now will either trade it in on something else or drive it for several more years. I also avoided the .15/mile for overmilage, the lease termination fee of $400 and any repairs that would be required as a result of a lease-end inspection.

Depending on the vehicle and the market, you can make money doing this. This is the third time I've done this, always with higher end cars, and I've made money every time.

Len
Very Clever!Kristin
Oct 31, 2001 6:59 AM
I was just going to state that leasing is never financially beneficial, but you've proved me wrong! Good job. I will still say that leasing is typically not the least expensive choice.

My leasing concerns:
When I hear a friend say, "I lease cars because I can get a nicer one than if I were buying," I cringe and challenge them to consider buying a car that is in their budget. We can become slaves to our need to impress others. (Though, I don't think that's what our initial poster is struggling with here.)

Another useful assignment for someone who stresses about "keeping up with the Jones." At 4:30am on a Saturday morning, get out of bed, robe thyself, walk to the nicest, most-evniable abode on your block, stand thyself before it, hands raised, and shout, "You win!" :-)
Another Model...Len J
Oct 31, 2001 7:11 AM
in addition to getting a better car (Keep up with the Joneses) for the same money, is to get the same car for less money per month. Again the key drivers are new car every few years and milage.

The reason you can sometimes make money like I have on leasing is twofold:

1.) Companies are getting flooded with cars coming off lease & you buying it makes it much easier on them therefor they will negotiate.

2.) Residuals & buyouts are guesses by the finance companies as to what the vehicle will be worth at the end of the lease. Because they are guesses, they are always wrong, sometimes high, sometimes low. My wife's lease ended and they had guessed high so hers was worth less than the buyout. This is bad news for the leasing cos. In this case they were much more willing to negotiate the buyout price.

The "impress" factor you talk about is present (wether we like it or not) in every new car purchase. Otherwise, we would all be buying small used ugly functional vehicles (which very few of us do).

Len
Hey! I buy small, ugly functional (kinda) cars!Kristin
Oct 31, 2001 8:12 AM
Well, last time I bought a smallish, previously wrecked (didn't realize), internally comfy car with Quad4 motor. I have since been told that the Quad4 was an unfortunate choice. But the only important factors to me in car are:

(in order of importance)
* cup holder placement
* center arm rest
* power goodies
* comfy drivers seat
* accelerability
* exterior condition (no rust or big dents)
* wide enough for Bernardo to ride in back seat
* good stereo (CD play a must next time)
* low insurance rates
* gas milage
* color (never black - did that twice - everyday carwash)
You are in the minority....Len J
Oct 31, 2001 9:00 AM
unfortunatly.

Interestingly enough, this is similar to bike buying. If more people took your approach most of us would be riding used steel bikes with no better than 105 components and handmade wheels.

At least you have your priorities right (cup holder & center arm rest) :).

Len

p.s. what is accelerability (is this a word)? (s)
You guys don't think about riding enough! We took our tandemMB1
Oct 31, 2001 9:59 AM
to the car dealer to make sure it would fit in the Chevy Venture long wheelbase Mini-Van we choose. We traded in the pickup truck that held our bikes nicely in the back since Miss M wanted more room to change out of cycling clothes in the winter time.

I've built a nice box in the back to hold the tandem away from the center seats and a floor rack to hold 3 singles when needed.

You should choose a car to make cycling easier. Since we bought the thing we have about 3 times as many miles on our bikes as we do on the car.
Ak - sel - ur - ah' - bil - it - eeKristin
Oct 31, 2001 10:16 AM
The ability to exit a stop light more quickly than your opponents. Yes, that's what other drivers are. Life is a race! Winners wanted.
The accent should be on *sel*, not *ah* nm4bykn
Oct 31, 2001 12:23 PM
Thanks (nm)Kristin
Oct 31, 2001 2:09 PM
Is this anything like........Len J
Oct 31, 2001 1:31 PM
what I have when I'm gettting ready to run to the Bathroom?

Len
pretty close to my checklist:Js Haiku Shop
Oct 31, 2001 11:20 AM
* price
* power goodies
* somewhat sporty, even if economy car
* leg room
* gas mileage
* low insurance rates
* accelerability
* big trunk
* good stereo / speakers (CD play a must next time!!!!)
* color (silver, gold, gray, nothing dark)

this put me bringing home a new '97 honda civic coupe ex, in november '96.

now...there are other considerations. first, putting a carseat in the back for my boy is about equal to getting stupid drunk and wrestling an angry mongoose. then, there's getting him in and out of the seat, which requires pulling the passenger's seat, folded, all the way forward on the rails, climbing backwards (bek-kerds) into the back seat with him in tow, and the ensuing contortions. also, i didn't ride when purchasing the car. at that time, one of my big considrations was an ash tray. therefore, my future qualifications have changed:

* price
* safety
* backseat accessibility and room
* power goodies
* bike portage
* somewhat sporty, even if economy car
* leg room
* gas mileage
* low insurance rates (things change as you get older!)
* "accelerability" and 4wd/awd
* big trunk / rear storage
* good stereo / speakers (CD play a must this time!!!!)
* color (silver, gold, gray, nothing dark)

this likely leaves me with the subaru outback or forrester. it's still a couple years 'til my turn for a new car rolls 'round, so things may change.
Hey!4bykn
Oct 31, 2001 12:22 PM
It looked like you were describing my truck until I got to the last two items on the list, K. My mileage isn't great, but when my black beauty is cleaned and waxed, there aren't many better lookin' trucks out there.

Your Quad-4 may have accelerability, but it (the engine) prefers you don't use it. Baby it and it'll last, though. It's hard to beat a good old American V-8 for easy accelerability (I love that word, if it is one).
Acceleration. Stop making up words ;-0 nmBrooks
Oct 31, 2001 1:00 PM
Physics can explain everything!mr_spin
Oct 31, 2001 1:15 PM
As a word, accelerability simply implies that acceleration is possible. It's the foundation of a new physics concept known as "potential acceleration." There could be a Nobel prize here!

Of course, using that definition, any car or other object that can move has accelerability. Even objects that can't move on their own have accelerability. For instance, your car still has accelerability while parked. All it requires is the application of some external force, such as another car.
Farts and Accelerability. What's the Potential? nmBrooks
Oct 31, 2001 1:48 PM
of you? or everybody else? nmmr_spin
Oct 31, 2001 2:31 PM
So close and yet so far!Kristin
Oct 31, 2001 2:36 PM
Another near miss for the Nobel prize. One of these days I'll get one! But first I must pass geometry. ;-)
nice!mr_spin
Oct 31, 2001 7:46 AM
You sound like a born salesman to me. Ordinary people probably couldn't swing that deal!
This is trueKristin
Oct 31, 2001 8:16 AM
Our friend Len is talented indeed! I don't go into dealerships anymore. I was held hostage once and left shuttering after 4 hours (but without the car)! And I considered that a victory.

I met a woman once who was sold a 3 year old Ford Escort for $22,000. Ouch! That's almost criminal.
nice!Len J
Oct 31, 2001 8:56 AM
I've spent a large part of my career negotiating the buying & selling of companies. It's good practice for buying & selling cars :).

Seriously, the key thing is to know what the other parties needs and wants are and structure the offer around that. In this case the poor guy at the finance company needs to get rid of the cars coming off lease and not lose his A** doing it. So the key is to know what the value is (at wholesale, which is where he is going to dispose of it) you can get this from a blue book, and you can guess at what it will cost him to dispose of it (since he probably doesn't sell it himself but uses a broker he's going to pay someone a percentage). Once you know this you decide (guess) at the lowest price that he might take and offer that. Worst thing that happens is he counters and you get an idea of what his view is. From then on your just finalizing the details.

IMO the key is to not get emotionally attached to the car. As long as you are willing to walk away (really walk away), you can usually do a deal. Now, if this were a Porsche that I loved, I don't think I could have done as well, or maybe it would have just cost more.

Len
my dadharper
Oct 31, 2001 8:15 AM
My dad worked in the car industry for years, Chevy dealer specifically. He looked at it this way. If you buy a car on a 5 year note, typcially, that car will be worth very little at the end of your loan. OTOH, if you lease a car, it's worth nothing to you at the end of the lease term. So, he thought leasing was a good idea, b/c you get into a new car every so often, and you are not losing money.

I'm not sure I buy his opinion, but it's just one other way of looking at it.