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Thoughts on hate crimes(16 posts)

Thoughts on hate crimesBikingViking
Feb 28, 2002 12:30 PM

Isn't it funny how Matthew Shepards' death gets all the publicity, but no one hears about poor Jesse Dirkhising because the evil was committed by gay men.

Isn't it funny how a car-dragging death in Jasper Texas doesn't get publicity because the victim was white?

There is no such thing as a hate crime. The crimes listed above and in the article are all heinous and evil, to be sure. But to make them more evil just because a victim was gay or black, does a great disrespect to those victims who were not of a "minority" status.

When a another human commits such brutal crimes, does it really matter WHY they did it? I don't think so.

Real provacative stuff Scott. I predict many replies. (nm)Sintesi
Feb 28, 2002 1:41 PM
Unfortunately...Jon Billheimer
Feb 28, 2002 3:52 PM
...our rush to political correctness overrules our humanity. Good point, Scott. All such crimes are hate crimes. One doesn't maim or murder out of love.
Pet PeeveBirddog
Feb 28, 2002 6:16 PM
You're onto one of my pet peeves, and quite right to boot.
on Black neighborhoodsWoof the dog
Mar 1, 2002 2:08 AM
I was in one once and I felt really intimidated because it was exactly what was happenin'. I hated this place as it was dirty too - garbage on the streets and all the black people staring at me like I was a white dawg or someping. It was weird, man! I agree with Howard Stern: blacks and whites don't mix! I don't imply a white man is better than a black man, we are all the same human beings, but culture/customs still separate us, IMO. I can't possibly be racist because I am a dog.

Also, how come we don't have White Appreciation Day if we got Black Appreciation Day? That is discriminatory!


Woof the dog.
re: Thoughts on hate crimesBikingViking
Mar 1, 2002 7:40 AM
I thoroughly despise the "thought police" censoring the news. SOMEONE in the media makes a decision whether or not to run with a story and, anecdotally, it seems the media doesn't want to run stories about "protected groups" doing terrible things. The fear of being branded a racist or a homophobe is too much for some. I would rather hear the TRUTH. Now that the Catholic Church is FINALLY addressing their problems with pederasty, I think the gay/minorities need to be honest and admit there are some not-very-nice people within their groups as well.

ALL racists/bigots/homophobes/pedophiles/sexists are NOT white men!!

BTW, I am an American of Norwegian descent (note that AMERICAN is FIRST!)

hard to believeMJ
Mar 1, 2002 7:45 AM
you're getting so worked up over this - surely this isn't news to you - is it?

welcome to the real world
hard to believeBikingViking
Mar 1, 2002 2:03 PM
It's not that I get worked up about it excessively. I just like to post controversial things and read all of the different responses. It helps to to learn about opposing views.

I am not losing sleep at night because of the world's unfairness!! :o)

hard to believeMJ
Mar 4, 2002 12:45 AM
well that's good - there's a slant on everything - you always have to monitor and consider the source, context and 'truth' of anything that you're told

generally I don't believe anything I'm told these days as it's stated - there's too much spin

this forum tends to be populated by mainly middle of the road to more conservative US types - so you're unlikely to see anything other than (only) mildly opposing viewpoints
hard to believejtollesen
Mar 6, 2002 7:32 PM
Leviticus 20:13 - If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
I agree but ....McAndrus
Mar 1, 2002 6:07 PM
Morally, I agree. The crime is the crime and an act like murder is heinous regardless of the motivation.

However, there are many other places where the law takes motive into account when determining punishment. Hate crimes are just another instance of this.

From the layman's perspective I find it ironic that if I murder someone in the heat of passion I will probably get a lesser sentence than if I murder the person in cold blood. But a hate crime is certainly a passion motivation that seems to merit a greater punishment. Hmmm....
re: Thoughts on hate crimesharlett
Mar 4, 2002 9:56 PM
is the real question here. are crimes motivated by bigoted hatreds more damaging to our present society than similar crimes motivated by certain other reasons?

no one is punished under a hate crimes law for just their thoughts-- we allow people to believe that someone deserves hatred because of their religion, race, gender, ethnicity or sexual orientation-- no one is criminally punished for just speaking or writing bigoted hateful thoughts-- our freedoms of speech and religion allow people to speak hatred and to form their own groups and preach their set of beliefs-- it is only the combination of bigoted hateful motivations plus criminal action that receives greater punishment under a hate crime law-

hate crimes are different from other crimes because they are not just crimes against individual victims-- the victim of a hate crime is targeted because of the group to which they belong-- what truly distinguishes hate crimes from common crimes is that hate crimes are committed to send a distinct message, matthew shepard laid out as crucified against a barbed wire fence, civil rights workers disappearing in the south, the hate worded graffiti on the synagogue wall or the burning of black congregational churches-- it is about the violence/destruction that is done to send a message to a minority within the community-- with hate crimes, violence, destruction and intimidation are not just a means to an end, but the goal of the crime itself-- hate crimes are indeed more complex than normal crimes because they arise from intolerance and prejudice--

hate crime laws are no different than laws that punish crimes more severely when guns are involved or when there is deliberate planning and premeditation-- they are about the effect on our society of criminal actions taken because of bigoted motivations-- they are about people forcibly imposing their ideas and beliefs on others through a crime--

we fixate too much on the high profile crimes of hate and the misdirected messages like those in this threads initial post-- most hate crimes are about harassment, intimidation, assault and the destruction of property-- they are actions against the perceived difference of the victim and that victims group-- a majority of hate crimes are committed by young uneducated males who learned bigotry at home and in their communities-- these perpetrators act out of ignorance, unbalanced emotions, fear and an intolerance for diversity-- they are motivated by personal prejudices that come from the ideas that someone who is different is threatening-- the perpetrators are often convinced that what they are doing is justified--

national/state hate crime laws have two very useful purposes-- they allow for the prosecution of hate crimes that wouldn't normally be prosecuted because of a communities bias, local prejudices or the ability/desire to absorb the costs-- more importantly the added punishment of these laws can help deter those who are just starting to commit these kinds of crimes, sometimes done in seeking peer approval or excitement-- it's not that large a leap, when guided by hate and those who hate, from breaking windows and simple assaults to homes burned and victims hospitalized or even murdered--

when we turn away from someone being assailed because of their race, ethnicity, religion, gender or sexual orientation we become part of a larger moral problem-- our societies are strengthened..when we have and show respect for a diversity of thought and beliefs .when we honor that respect through the protections we sometimes may have to give that diversity--

"not out of right practice comes right thinking,
but out of right thinking comes right practice--
it matters enormously what you think--
if you think falsely, you will act mistakenly;
if you think basely, your conduct will suit your thinking"
. the upanishads
re: Thoughts on hate crimesReal American
Mar 5, 2002 10:50 PM
Im a educated male that thinks fag dikes like you need a good beating. Don't fags like it rough? Take your fag message and your nigger jew girlyfriends somewhere else. God will not forget your sins.
Mar 6, 2002 1:53 AM
Thanks for confirmingjtolleson
Mar 6, 2002 9:31 AM
my lack of faith in redneck americanism.
Mar 6, 2002 9:40 AM
will this get you to take notice and delete that post above - what's going on?