|It was a "Super" Super Bowl....||DINOSAUR|
Feb 3, 2002 7:18 PM
|I was veering toward the Rams before the game, but when the Patriots came out of the tunnel together at the beginning of the game as a team, declining to have individual player announcements, I was in their corner. It has to be the best Super Bowl and perhaps the best football game of all history. Hats off to the Patriots, they had guts!|
|re: It was a "Super" Super Bowl....||Me Dot Org|
Feb 3, 2002 11:23 PM
|While I might take exception with "the greatest football game of all history", it was certainly an exciting and competitive Super Bowl, certainly as exciting as Buffalo-New York or the second Cincinnati-San Francisco SB.
Kudos to Belichick for coming up with a defensive plan that held the Rams to 3 points in the first half, something I thought close to impossible. St. Louis shot themselves in the foot a couple of times, but on the whole New England outplayed them.
The greatest (pro) game ever played? My vote goes to the 1982 Chargers/Dolphins playoff match. Kellen Winslow's effort was one I'll never forget.
|Ditto Chargers & Dolphins - nm||McAndrus|
Feb 4, 2002 4:47 AM
|But what about "The Drive?"||Sintesi at home|
Feb 4, 2002 6:51 AM
|Never saw that Chargers Dolphins game. My all time favorite was the Broncos v. Browns in the 1987 AFC Championship game. Broncos were getting smacked pretty bad and ended up taking a punt on the two yard line in the final 5 minutes and DROVE that ball down for a touchdown to tie the game. Lined up another 60 yard drive in overtime to kick the FG. Colorado basically went berzerk over that one. It was fantastic game.
The rematch a year later was pretty exciting as well. Cleveland had launched a drive of their own in the final minutes of the game only to cough up the ball on the three yardline of what should have been the game winning touchdown.
|Oh, and what about the '78 Steelers - Cowboys||McAndrus|
Feb 4, 2002 7:13 AM
|For those old enough to remember, one of my personal favorites was the Steelers and Cowboys in 1978. While not as close as "The Drive" or thrilling as Dolphins-Chargers it had one superlative moment.
The Steelers were ahead by one touchdown and the Cowboys were driving. Staubach had worked them down the field brilliantly. From inside the 10 yard line, Staubach drops an easy floater to his tight end sitting in the middle of the end zone. The tight end (I forget his name) drops the ball. He dropped the ball and it was right on his numbers!
Steelers go on to score at least one more time and make it look easy but the whole thing hinged on that one play.
|Oh, and what about the '78 Steelers - Cowboys||Me Dot Org|
Feb 4, 2002 10:15 AM
|Jackie Smith - The Bill Buckner of the Cowboys.|
|Oh, year, Buckner||McAndrus|
Feb 4, 2002 11:28 AM
|I was going to make the Buckner reference but I thought no one would get it. Hmmm....another seasoned citizen?|
|the '78 Steelers - Cowboys||Tig|
Feb 4, 2002 11:32 AM
|Ah, those were the golden years for the Steelers... Bradshaw, Swan, Harris, Stallworth (spelling?), and the Steel Curtain defense. Watching that team play was incredible! After those guys started retiring I lost most of my interest in pro football. I was hoping for a PA-bowl, but it just didn't happen. Sure, the teams that earned their Super Bowl trip made it, but the best (statistically speaking) teams didn't.
It's still good to see Terry Bradshaw on TV. He is a great and fun guy. I'd love to go fishing with him... that's his passion these days.
|Bradshaw is one of my all-time favorites.||McAndrus|
Feb 4, 2002 11:46 AM
|Here's a way to start an argument. Your five best quarterbacks, all time.
1. Johnny Unitas
2. John Elway
3. Joe Montana
4. Joe Namath
5. Terry Bradshaw
|75% of the quarterbacks in the league......||Len J|
Feb 4, 2002 12:27 PM
|at the time could have guided that team to several super-bowl wins. Terry Bradshaw was an average Q/B at best who was surrounded by incredible talent & coaching. Two Hall of fame receivers, a Hall of fame Running back with one of the best pound for pound fullbacks in history, an offensive line that gave him adequate time & perhaps the greatest team-defense in NFL history. If Bradshaw was a great Q/B they may never have lost. Put Elway or Montana on that team, Hell put Archie Manning on that team & they would have been unbelievable.
I can name 10 Q/B's that I think would be ahead of Bradshaw in addition to the 4 above (in no particular order):
(I know that's 12 but I couldn't help myself)
I know this will elicit emotion, but likable as he is, he's hardly in the same class as the other four (Or 16 as the case may be)
|A great thing about sports ....||McAndrus|
Feb 4, 2002 1:35 PM
|A great thing about sports is that we can argue ourselves silly and in the end it doesn't mean much.
I accept your position. Actually, I don't but you've named some pretty fine quarterbacks there. And, not being drunk, I surrender to your superior knowledge.
|Damn that was too easy...........||Len J|
Feb 4, 2002 2:05 PM
|you are absolutly right about sport arguments.
And as to superior knowledge, grow up in the inner city of a sports crazed town like Philadelphia and you find that Sports info is a currency of acceptance & sometimes survival. I think I have more useless junk in my head than useful.
But it is fum to think about what other great Q/B's could have done with that Pittsburgh team. Can you imagine Elway on that team?
Info worth less than .02
Feb 4, 2002 2:25 PM
|Bradshaw may be the biggest fool in the history of the NFL, blessed with a great team and great coaches, I don't know. But you cannot discount his presence in the team chemistry. He's a strongwilled character with a wild sense of humor. Take him out of the equation, and maybe everything changes.
Lots of people say that Ringo is a terrible drummer, but you what? The only reason the Beatles stayed together as long as they did was because Ringo was there.
You can line up all the player stats you want, but if the players don't work together, forget it.
|Chemistry and Ringo||Tig|
Feb 5, 2002 6:47 AM
|You have a good point about team chemistry. Its one of those things that can't be measured like a statistic, but without it... Fzzzz!
Funny that you mentioned Ringo Starr. My sister in law is one of those major Beatle fans from the original days and has read damn near everything about them. Paul, being a perfectionist, would actually go back into the studio and re-record the drum tracks with himself playing! No one but he and a few others know what songs he played drums on though. Just a factoid to ponder...
Feb 5, 2002 7:27 AM
|Agreed, Chemistry matters.
All the other Q/B's I mentioned managed to win (Other the Manning, & I think that was more about a bad organization than anything)so I think they knew how to "work & play well with others". My point was that Bradshaw isn't in the top 15 Q/B's of all time (Let alone the top 5).
|What about Terry Hanratty and Jefferson Street Joe?||Me Dot Org|
Feb 4, 2002 11:10 PM
|...Well I'm glad you put Archie Manning on the list. The Saints were so bad when he played for them he rarely gets his props...|
|Thumbs up for Tarkenton and Fouts.||Sintesi|
Feb 5, 2002 6:45 AM
|They were my favorites as a kid. Those boys put up an hellacious amount of air yardage.|
|I beg to differ....||Starliner|
Feb 5, 2002 8:37 AM
|Bradshaw came into the league with a rep of having the physical tools (size, arm, athletic legs) but lacking in the mental area. As a Raiders fan, I am loathe to defend that guy, but I'd have to say that you've underestimated his quarterbacking ability. Of today's QB's, I think Brett Favre has a roughly similar style. Bradshaw was good at evading the rush, and came up with many key plays both by passing and scrambling when he had to. His years were Pittsburgh's best years, and sure they had other great players as well. But Len Dawson? Come on.
A few notables you forgot - Joe Namath.... changed the game in many ways; his brashness and ability to back it up made him a star. Bad knees hastened an end to his career. Bart Starr..... the anti-Namath; efficient, obedient, effective. Became a lousy coach after he retired as a player. Sonny Jurgenson..... I'd take him anyday over Archie Manning. Known to be a real fine drinking buddy.
|I beg to differ....||Len J|
Feb 5, 2002 8:52 AM
|I agree about Namath, he was one of the original 4 I agreed with including Unitas, Elway & Montana.
I didn't include Bart Starr because I didn't think he was that great a Q/B. I do believe that he was a great leader, but aas a pure passer, I don't know if he would match up. Remember The Packers offense was amazingly run oriented.
Jurgenson was on the bubble for me. I thought Manning was one of the best pure Q/B's I have ever seen, it is always interesting to think about what would have been possible if he was ever on a half decent team. Kind of like the question of what could Marino have done if he ever had a running game to balance the offense with.
My problem with Bradshaw has always been how inaccurate a passer he really was. One of the reasons that Swann & Stallworth made so many acrobatic catches was because they had to. Was the "Immaculate reception" a well thrown ball? Believe me, I'm not saying he was a bad Q/B, just overrated. Anyone who says he is top 5 of alltime, c'mon. Even if you don't include Dawson, he's still not even top 15.
Part of the issue is "How do you define a good Q/B?" For me, it's ability to throw an accurate pass, Good decision making, leadership, toughness, and ability to win. My read on Bradshaw is that he was only average on the first three & exceptional on the last two. My final decision is always to think about how the Q/B would do on a bad team, or how much better he would make a good team. Again in my mind there are a lot of Q/B's I'd select before Bradshaw.
|Namath vs Bradshaw||Brooks|
Feb 5, 2002 9:22 AM
|I'll state up front that I grew up with the Raiders, so there is my bias. Immaculate Reception? Immaculate Deception! I don't see how how you can put Namath in your top 5 but not include Bradshaw. By your measure, Namath shouldn't even make the list. Very inaccurate, tons of interceptions to few touchdowns, his team only won one championship (granted a big game vis a vis the AFL-NFL merger) and the Jets were good but couldn't consistently beat the Raiders, Steelers, Chiefs, and Dolphins. The only reason he is in the Hall of Fame (IMHO) is because he played in New York. Statistically the worst QB in the Hall since the rise of the AFL.|
Feb 5, 2002 9:34 AM
|Remove Namath from my list. Bradshaw's still not in the top 15.
Feb 5, 2002 12:01 PM
|When Bradshaw first came up, the Steelers were a rotten team. I remember when he was a rookie they played the Raiders in an exhibition game and the Raiders had a hell of a time trying to deal with the slippery young punk. I would argue that his contribution to the Steeler's subsequent success was definitely important.
Namath's Jets were never great teams. In the last half of the 60's, the Raiders and the Chiefs were better. But Namath was a good leader who could rally his team behind him, as was especially evident in their Super Bowl year. Injuries cut many of his seasons short; he probably never did reach his full potential. But when he was on, he was very dangerous. In fact, he always was dangerous. His quick dropback, deep setup and quick release of the ball set him apart from other QB's of the era. And of course his style (white shoes, fu manchu, longish hair, brash confidence) helped create a shift in player attitudes from that time on.
|Personal Favorite (most remembered).....||Len J|
Feb 4, 2002 9:35 AM
|was the 49ers Cincinnatti super bowl where Montana drove the length of the field in the final 2 minutes to win.
I worked at a large multi-national. Someone in our IT deptartment started a pool where you had to pick every game in the playoffs. There were 3 prizes, $30,000.00 $10,000.00 and $5,000.00. There were 4 of us who picked every game before the Superbowl, the other three picked San Francisco & I picked Cin. Either I win 30 large, or I get nothing. The last drive was like a slow death. Hardest game I have ever watched. BTW at the time, I think I was making $35,000/yr. This was hugh.
It still hurts to think about it.
|Pats have been unified and team-intensive...||RhodyRider|
Feb 4, 2002 9:32 AM
|...all season, I'm glad the rest of the nation could see it last night. They are a likeable bunch, well-coached and solid. And they hit like a Mack truck!
Believe me, the majority of New Englanders are rejoicing today!