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Mad Cow Disease(25 posts)

Mad Cow Diseasegtx
Jan 18, 2002 10:22 AM
serious question--anyone nervous about eating beef these days? I admit, I'm a bit freaked out, and it's killing me--chicken burritos just don't cut it for me.
The truth comes out...Spinchick
Jan 18, 2002 10:34 AM
Okay this may be slightly irrational but...I haven't eaten beef in over 8 months - for this very reason. My husband, Mr. Facts and Figures And If You Can't Prove It, It Ain't True, has also stopped eating red meat. I don't really miss it that much.
re: Mad Cow Diseasemorey
Jan 18, 2002 10:37 AM
Its those damned cows that spread the rumor!!!!!
So true. nmMB1
Jan 18, 2002 10:41 AM
The same cows that started that "Eat mor chiken" campaign? nmSpinchick
Jan 18, 2002 10:45 AM
The same cows that started that "Eat mor chiken" campaign? nmmorey
Jan 18, 2002 11:39 AM
I think its the same ones! Truthfully, we could not even breathe if we believed that everything was going to kill us. One day you will die from something! An old lady that I was complaining to about the pain in my shoulder told me "One day the pains will all go away" be glad for the pain.
you pussy....just eat it (n m)D
Jan 18, 2002 11:09 AM
Don't be a victim of hysteria.Sintesi
Jan 18, 2002 1:40 PM
Use your neo-cortex. It's a COW disease. Not a human disease. Be rational. It's your birth right to use this virtue so don't waste it.
Don't be a victim of hysteria.gtx
Jan 18, 2002 2:00 PM
maybe you don't know much about this. It's not just cows, plenty of humans who have eaten the affected cows can and have died (I think 100+ confirmed in England), we don't know as much about it as we would like, and the beef industry is in denial. Read all about it:

http://www.mad-cow.org/

http://whyfiles.org/012mad_cow/

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/Health/Mad_Cow_Disease/

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/98sep/madcow.htm
Your point being?Sintesi at home
Jan 18, 2002 7:22 PM
Here's a quote from one of your links:

"The vCJD infection rate is low, however. The 113 British deaths since 1995 have occurred in a population of more than 60 million. Three people have died in France and one in Ireland."

In Britain, that is .000183% chance of contracting the disease. Spread out over 5 years means a gigantic .0000313%(!) chance of contracting the disease. Incidentally, (from I've gleaned from your sources) it seems a good deal of the cases can be traced to regional "hotspots" at the height of the outbreak, further reducing the perceivable risk to the general populace. If this level of risk skeeves you out then buddy, I wouldn't even think about riding a bike, let alone cross the street.

I'm coming across as arrogant I guess and I apologize. I'm trying to be funny and rib you a bit. Really, I'm a goof and I've had to apologize to people here before. : )
Your info really is an eye opener but from what I can see there is more speculation of possible threat than actual threat. Risk is a relative perception.
Wrong......Dr Death
Jan 21, 2002 6:36 AM
Your figures are a bunch of @ss. You are looking at the actual death figures. There are many more hundreds who have the disease now, but have not yet died (there is currently no cure - mortality is 100% to date), and who knows how many more thousands who have not yet exhibited symptoms, but have contracted. There is still no test for this, pre-presentation.

This is a very real problem in the UK, and many other parts of Europe - you just don't hear about it. There will be many millions who die of CJD (human BSC, or "mad-cow disease"). That is not even considering the new evidence that it has spread to sheep.

Believe me - it's a real threat, and your state are way, way, way off the mark.
Well we'll see.Sintesi at home
Jan 21, 2002 10:38 AM
I think you're wrong. And when the "many millions" have passed away you can be happy with the knowledge that you were right. : )
Then you are both a fool and a bigot - nice combo.Dr Death
Jan 22, 2002 1:25 AM
Get off your stupid @ss and look at the widely available basic information and try to inform your stupid ignorant opinion - and perhaps you could spare a though for those of us unfortunate to know those who are suffering the terrible decline of this disease, but have not yet had the release that, currently, only death can offer.

You should be ashamed of yourself.
If that's the way you want to be. Everyone else can skip this.Sintesi
Jan 22, 2002 11:59 AM
Golly, what have I done to anger you so? Simply because I think the risk is relatively low compared to say, I dunno, salmonella which has killed many, many more. From what I've read (hey I'm no expert, just like you) The number of deaths over a 5 year period has been low. Let's compare the nCJD death toll to some stats I found for the UK just for 1998.

Every year in the UK, about 120,000 people in the UK are killed by smoking, accounting for one fifth of all UK death. Deaths caused by smoking are six times higher than the 20,170 deaths arising from road accidents; poisoning and overdose (2,663); other accidental deaths (8,986); murder and manslaughter (503); suicide (4,379); and HIV infection (195) in the UK during 1998.”

Mortality statistics 1998., Office for National Statistics, 1999; General Register Office for Scotland, 1998; Registrar General Northern Ireland, Annual Report, Statistics & Research Agency, 1998.

There are 10 cases of definite or probable vCJD, in which the afflicted is still alive currently diagnosed in Britain. Not thousands, let alone millions. The nature of this disease and its current scope of infection is speculative at best. I know you don't know how many have it because no one knows. Scientists are guessing and as you can imagine projections are all over the place depending on which article you read. The latest study I found was a computer generated risk projection from a team of epidemiologists from the Imperial College of Science, Technology and Medicine in London, it was published this month. If the infection of BSE has indeed retroactively infected sheep and then proceeds to develop as vCJD in humans, worst case scenario: 150,000 deaths by year 2080. Or 1 in 30,000 per year spead over this duration. That's pretty bad except when compared to car accidents or cancer (trust me every bit as horrible). 120,000 deaths a year from smoking related disease compared to a speculative 150,000 spread over 80 years. You have lived with this tremendous level of death and risk everyday of your life yet you choose lowly Mad Cow disease to go bonkers over. I don't get it. Furthermore, the epidemiologists caution against accepting the worst scenario as likely. In fact one projection of theirs said this risk could be reduced by 90% if the government in curtailing the disease took aggressive action.

Feel free to read it yourself.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/madcow/toll1902.cfm

as reported by The National CJD Surveillance Unit, Western General Hospital, Edinburgh EH4 2XU and Dept of Infectious and Tropical Diseases, London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine
Keppel Street, London WC1E 7HT:

“In 1990-2000 mortality rates from sporadic CJD in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland were, respectively, 0.75, 0.86, 1.00 and 0.46/million/year. The difference between the rates in each country is not statistically significant (p=0.3).

http://www.cjd.ed.ac.uk/2000rep.html

.75/deaths per million between 1990 and 2000 in England. CDJ has been and is awful if you get it but highly unlikely.

You and your many millions.

I'm no statistician and I know figures often lie but you are speculating that there is about to be a great horror like the Black Death without any real evidence. You may know more than the scientists mentioned above but somehow I doubt it. Prove me wrong if you like. I'll apologize if I'm wrong.

The biggest devastation will economic. That will be for sure.

So, I'm sorry you feel I'm a bigot or unsympathetic, but let's face it, it's kind of hard for me to care what someone who calls his or herself Dr. Death feels. The people who actually know me find me pretty caring and compassionate. By the way, do you normally post here? I can't find Dr. Death anywhere. Are you new, or do you just change your handle whenever you want to post angry and nasty. Maybe it makes you feel better and that's okay. : ) I like you.

I still think you are wrong (in fact after reading more and seeing the facts I'm pretty much convinced).I don't think I have anything to be ashamed of.
God spare us from fools like you.Dr Death
Jan 23, 2002 3:17 AM
Who can read but not reason, who make up statistics off the cuff with no understanding. You have presumably read the stuff you have posted, and yet you have no understanding of it whatsoever.

Thank you for your personal attacks. I am an epidemiologist, and have been working with patients dying from this disease. I know a lot more than you about this than you do, but then again, so so most chimps I would suspect.

Which bit do you, with your tiny mind, find difficult about the concept that looking at deaths over the past 10 years tells you nothing about future mortality rates? Kindly explain that to patients who are now coming in through the door and presenting with CJD. Lord, how much of how many people's time did you waste at school?

Sorry - I didn't realise that everyone's posting name had to have your personal, hallowed approval. Perhaps you could make up some idiot off the cuff statistics about that too?

What do you do for brains? Kindly show me the section of my comments that refers to the Black Death.

We all know that you don't care how anyone else feels, that is entirely obvious. I wish you the best of luck when you need are for any reason and you encounter people like yourself.

Do us all a favour - you are a fine candidate for natural selection - eat away on your burgers, we could do with thinning out the bottom feeders at the shallow end of the gene pool.
Hoo Boy. Deathy. Everyone, please skip again. Thank you.Sintesi
Jan 23, 2002 7:45 AM
You didn't read at all. Those were projections from epidemiologists. You got both the high and the lowball guess. Did you see the other link? Oh well.

"There will be many millions who die of CJD (human BSC, or "mad-cow disease"). That is not even considering the new evidence that it has spread to sheep"

That's a quote from you hence my reference to Black Death. It was a famous plague in which "many millions" died. It's called sarcasm. Something my tiny brain came up with.
Deathy, you are no epidemiologist you're a scaremonger and your figures (generalized hyperbole given as fact) are a crock.

I'll grant you my figures initially were off the cuff (I've admitted I'm no expert) but they're still accurate in the sense that CDJ has not killed a lot of people particularly relative to other rates of death. Vastly so. I understand, and understood from the first, completely that past performance does not equal future performance and there is cause for some alarm. The question is how much. That was the question. Some are speculating that there are genetic components to a person's susceptibility and also what parts of the cow was eaten and possibly in what quantities could be a factor. These could be limiting factors. Age may be a component. The final tally could very well be in the hundreds or in the thousands, but out of a huge population it has not been a tremendous risk. This not to mention that most experts seem to be in agreement that the biggest dangers have already passed. Should you be afraid to eat beef? No. Do what you like, if you don't want to take an infinitesimal risk that is your prerogative. Sheep? Remains to be seen. Speculation and a closely monitored speculation at that.

You are rude, sanctimonious and insulting. You've added nothing to this interchange except blunt dismissals and insisting that I don't care about those who have the disease. You offer no evidence that great deals of people will die of this disease in the future. From what I've read, this is because there is no evidence. Your childish behavior says more about you than about me. But I didn't mind, I learned a lot about BSE and vCJD. : )

I won't bother to read any more of your responses nor will I reply to them.
Have a nice day.
Good - spare us all from any more of your wittless cr@p.Dr Death
Jan 23, 2002 10:17 AM
You are a rude, ignorant, isulting, arrogant fool. Spare us all from any more of your pathetic, sad, whining drivel.

Your use of "scarcasm" says it all - the lowest form of wit. Best you trot this out from the safety of your PC - you wouldn't last 5 minutes in the real world - you haven't even grasped the basics.
Puns are the lowest form of wit, genius. (nm)Sintesi
Jan 23, 2002 11:34 AM
Geez, what an idiot - at least get your literature right..
Jan 24, 2002 2:03 AM
This link may lower your heart rate as well.Sintesi at home
Jan 22, 2002 3:09 PM
http://www.organicconsumers.org/madcow/legacy112801.cfm

See, it might be okay for the average person to relax and not be so afraid of Mad Cow Disease.
Cows and cycling don't mix. Don't end up like this poor fellow.js5280
Jan 18, 2002 4:53 PM
Found this on MTBR, a very funny post worth checking out

http://forums13.consumerreview.com/crforum?viewall@@.eea7ed2
You just gotta wear a helmet...NMACE-
Jan 18, 2002 10:46 PM
nm
I know a llamaSpinchick
Jan 19, 2002 10:08 AM
who could very well end up looking like this if he ever chases me again. Either that or I could look like this - but without the horns.
re: Mad Cow DiseaseMe Dot Org
Jan 19, 2002 10:52 AM
I'd have to agree that your chances of getting Mad Cow disease are less than having someone open their car door while your riding next to a semi.

If you want a rationalization not to eat beef, (and I don't wan't to spark the vegetarian vs. carnivore debate):

It takes about 3 pounds of vegetable protein to make a pound of chicken protein.

It takes about 4 pounds of vegetable protein to make a pound of pork protein.

It takes about 7 pounds of vegetable protein to make a pound of beef protein.

Higher forms of life are essentially protein reduction machines, but beef is amoung the most inefficient.
re: Mad Cow DiseaseJon Billheimer
Jan 20, 2002 11:19 AM
Damn cows! So let's all go eat egg whites and the cows will be happy. So will the chickens.