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The new Jane Fonda(very long)(16 posts)

The new Jane Fonda(very long)spookyload
Jan 3, 2002 11:17 PM
> > > Subject: FW: Military Pay Article
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More great govt. policy from the political geniuses and pundits in
Hollywood, whose money and stardom of course make them experts in everything. For those of us who have spent those long hours, days & months away from home, this is especially close to our hearts. Here, here for this young man.
On 12 Nov, Ms Cindy Williams (from Laverne and Shirley TV show) wrote a piece for the Washington Times denouncing the pay raise(s) coming service members' way this year-citing that the stated 13% wage gap was bogus. A young airman from Hill AFB responds to her article below. He ought to get a bonus for this!
Ms. Williams:
I just had the pleasure of reading your column of 12 Jan, "Our GIs earn enough" and I am a bit confused. Frankly, I'm wondering where this vaunted overpayment is going, because as far as I can tell, it disappears every month between DFAS (The Defense Finance and Accounting Service) and my bank account. Checking my latest leave and earnings statement(LES), I see that I make $1,117.80, before taxes. After taxes, I take home $874.20. When I run that through Windows' Calculator, I come up with an annual salary of $13,413.60 before taxes, and $10,490.40 after. I work in the Air Force Network Control Center (AFNCC), where I am part of the team responsible for the administration of a 5,000-host computer network. I am involved with infrastructure segments, specifically with Cisco Systems equipment. A quick check under jobs for Network Technicians in the Washington, D.C. area reveals a position in my career field, requiring three years experience with my job. Amazingly, this job does NOT pay $13,413.60 a year, nor does it pay less than this. No,this job is being offered at $70,000 to $80,000 per annum. I'm sure you can draw the obvious conclusions. Also, you tout increases to Basic Allowance for Housing and Basic Allowance for Subsistence(housing and food allowances, respectively) as being a further boon to an already overcompensated force. Again, I'm curious as to where this money has gone, as BAH and BAS were both slashed 15% in the Hill AFB area effective in January 00. Given the tenor of your column, I would assume that you have NEVER had the pleasure of serving your country in her armed forces. Before you take it upon yourself to once more castigate congressional and DOD leadership for attempting to get the families in the military's lowest pay brackets off AFDC, WIC, and food stamps, I suggest that you join a group of deploying soldiers headed for AFGHANISTAN, I leave the choice of service branch up to you. Whatever choice you make, though, opt for the SIX month rotation: it will guarantee you the longest possible time away from your family and friends, thus giving you full "deployment experience". As your group prepares to board the plane, make sure to note the spouses and children who are saying good-bye to their loved ones. Also take care to note that several families are still unsure of how they'll be able to make ends meet while the primary breadwinner is gone-obviously they've been squandering the vast piles of cash the DOD has been giving them. Try to deploy over a major holiday; Christmas and Thanksgiving are perennial favorites. And when you're actually over there, sitting in a DFP (Defensive Fire Position, the modern-day foxhole), shivering against the cold desert night, and the flight sergeant tells you that there aren't enough people on shift to relieve you for chow, remember this: trade whatever MRE meal-ready-to-eat) you manage to get for the tuna noodle casserole or cheese tortellini, and add Tabasco to everything, this gives some flavor. Talk to your loved ones as often as you are permitted; it won't nearly be long enough or often enough, but take what you can get and be thankful for it.
You may have picked up on the fact that I disagree with most of the points you present in your op-ed piece. But, tomorrow from KABUL, I will defend to the death your right to say it. You see, I am an American fighting man, a guarantor of your First Amendment rights and every other right you cherish. On a daily basis, my brother and sister soldiers worldwide ensure that you and people like you can thumb your collective nose at us, all on a salary that is nothing short of pitiful and under conditions that would make most people cringe. We hemorrhage our best and brightest into the private sector because we can't offer the stability and pay of civilian companies. And you, Ms. Williams, have the gall to say that we make more than we deserve? Rubbish!
A1C Michael Bragg, Hill AFB AFNCC

IF YOU AGREE, PLEASE PASS THIS ALONG TO AS MANY PEOPLE
AS POSSIBLE AND SHOW OUR SUPPORT OF THE AMERICAN
FIGHTING MEN AND WOMEN. THANK YOU.
THIS LETTER SHOULD BE APPLAUDED BY ANYONE WHO'S EVER
SERVED OR HAD A FAMILY MEMBER SERVE IN THE ARMED
FORCES! THIS YOUNG MAN DESERVES A MEDAL!!!!
I always hated Laverne and ShirleyPaulCL
Jan 4, 2002 6:06 AM
Now I hate the show even more. Thanks. I'll pass it along.
What a pinhead.Spinchick
Jan 4, 2002 6:17 AM
No wonder Carmine never married her. She was much more suited for Squiggy.

Wonder how much SHE made on the show?
she's an idiotDog
Jan 4, 2002 6:25 AM
She's an idiot; how dare she think that her stardom makes her an expert; we all know that cycling is what makes someone an expert!

Seriously, I agree with the GI. Cindy was talking out her butt.

Dog
disinformation....the internet is full of it--harlett
Jan 4, 2002 11:22 AM
this story has been circulating for awhile now on the internet--
the cindy williams who wrote the article is not the actress-- she is another cindy williams who, according to the description with the article is a former assistant director in national security at the congressional budget office-- her opinions about the military pay raised were published in the washington post(not the washington times) on january 12 of 2000-- the article dealt with to what extent there was a gap in the wages of military personnel compared with civilians--
be careful what you believe on the internet---
that's no funDog
Jan 4, 2002 11:41 AM
We were set to rake her over the coals. This is no fun, now.

I guess it's easy to believe what we want to sometimes. Thanks.

Dog :-)
OK. But Laverne and Shirley still sucks...nm :)mr_spin
Jan 4, 2002 11:47 AM
GO AWAYDuh
Jan 4, 2002 1:23 PM
WE DONT WANT YOU HERE YOU ARE A IDIOT
Once again the ever courageous Duh....Len J
Jan 4, 2002 2:07 PM
hides behind anonimity to take a shot.

C'mon man grow up!

Len
You gotta love those cowardly trolls...Spinchick
Jan 4, 2002 4:04 PM
okay, maybe you don't.
Me Dot Org
Jan 4, 2002 4:35 PM
...just to let you know I'm not to the right of everybody

My stepsister sent me a piece back in November on how terrorism was all Bill Clinton's fault. This piece is going out in newsletters.

here's the piece, interspersed with my reply (remember, this was November):

i After the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, which killed
i six and injured 1,000, President Clinton promised that
i those responsible would be hunted down and punished.

Ramzi Yousef was convicted of the bombing in 1997, the last conspirator in 1998.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9804/03/wtc.bombing/

i After the 1998 bombing of U.S. embassies in Africa, which killed
i 224 and injured 5,000, Clinton promised that those responsible
i would be hunted down and punished.

On October 21, 2001 the sentences were handed down in the Embassy bombing trial:

http://fyi.cnn.com/2001/LAW/10/19/embassy.bombings/index.html

additional info:

http://fyi.cnn.com/LAW/trials.and.cases/case.files/0012/embassy.bombing/

In addition to the trials, Clinton signed an executive directive to freeze all of the U.S. assets of Osama Bin Laden. The United States sent Cruise Missles to attack Osama Bin Laden's facilities in Somalia and Afghanistan:

http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/terror/crs98091.htm

...for this he was accused by many of trying to deflect attention from his impending impeachment trial. (Remember the comparisons to 'Wag the Dog'?)

i After the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia,
i which killed 19 and injured 200 U.S. military personnel, Clinton
i promised that those responsible would be hunted down and punished.

June 22, 2001, Indictments were handed down in the Khobar Towers bombings:

http://www4.cnn.com/2001/LAW/06/21/khobar.indictments/

i After the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole, which killed 17
i and injured 3 U.S. sailors, Clinton promised that those
i responsible would be hunted down and punished.

The Cole was bombed on October 12th. George W. Bush was inaugurated January 20, 2001. I don't think it would be absolutely fair to condemn President Clinton for not getting to the bottom of the bombing in that short amount i of time. I would point out that Bush has had more time to i investigate the Cole bombings that Clinton did, and still i no indictments have been handed down. However, things are starting to happen on that front:

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/10/28/inv.cole.suspect.ap/index.html

i Maybe if Clinton had kept his promise, an estimated 7,000 i people would be alive today.

Getting Osama Bin Laden, as we are now seeing, is not going to be easy. One could have argued that the bombing of the African Embassies afforded Clinton the justification for an all-out war on Afghanistan, but I think most people would agree that the political realities of the fall of 1998 (the impending impeachment trial) would not have afforded President Clinton the military options currently afforded President Bush.

Even if Clinton had "kept his promise" it is possible that the operatives for the Al Qaeda network still could have carried out the bombing. The Bush administration has warned that even if Bin Laden is killed or captured, there could be additional attacks against the United States, and that the war against Terrorism could take decades.

One could just as easily make the rationalization that the 1993 WTC bombing was the fault of the Reagan administration for pulling out of Lebanon after the 1983 bombing. No indictments were ever handed down for that bombing. Reagan bombed Libya, presumably with the same sucess as the Clinton bombing of Somalia and Afghanistan.

How do you feel about car bombs? In a 1985 strike against Hezbollah leader Sheikh Fadlallah, Willaim Casey (Reagan's head of the C.I.A.) helped finance an operation that included the hiring of operatives who detonated a car bomb outside the Beirut apartment building where Fadlallah lived.

As described by Bob Woodward in Veil, "the car exploded, killing 80 people and wounding 200, leaving devastation, fires and collapsed buildings. Anyone who had happened to be in the immediate neighborhood was killed, hurt or terrorized, but Fadlallah escaped without injury. His followers strung a huge 'Made in the USA' banner in front of a building that had been blown out."

There have been victories and failures by both Democrats and Republicans in the war against terrorism. Blaming the failures of the intelligence community during the Clinton administration for the tragedy of September 11th is simplistic and counterproductive.
not the pointharlett
Jan 4, 2002 5:28 PM
whether you are right or left, or any other label, wasn't in my mind-- i did a site search on your posts before i responded in our last exchange-- i found your past posts to, generally, be both informative at times and well written-- i just vigorously disagreed with the method of how you were arriving at your conclusions on the last matter--

the original post here and your clinton example shows how the internet is full of deliberate disinformation that is created to pander to certain agendas-- the freedom and access the internet has given us is also a burden when it comes to finding the truth--
btwharlett
Jan 4, 2002 6:40 PM
you did a great job on putting together this post....and that's not just because it's defending clintons actions--
it stands on its own construction--
not...Starliner
Jan 5, 2002 10:37 PM
don't see you as right leaning in spite of Ramsey Clark discussion - good points made by both sides but maybe we should just say, "check his info first before swallowing" (as can be said for many).

IMO, anybody who does the AIDS ride to LA as you did has earned a deserved respect from me at least.
Me Dot Org
Jan 4, 2002 10:37 PM
...just to let you know I'm not to the right of everybody

My stepsister sent me a piece back in November on how terrorism was all Bill Clinton's fault. This piece is going out in newsletters.

here's the piece, interspersed with my reply (remember, this was November):

i After the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, which killed
i six and injured 1,000, President Clinton promised that
i those responsible would be hunted down and punished.

Ramzi Yousef was convicted of the bombing in 1997, the last conspirator in 1998.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9804/03/wtc.bombing/

i After the 1998 bombing of U.S. embassies in Africa, which killed
i 224 and injured 5,000, Clinton promised that those responsible
i would be hunted down and punished.

On October 21, 2001 the sentences were handed down in the Embassy bombing trial:

http://fyi.cnn.com/2001/LAW/10/19/embassy.bombings/index.html

additional info:

http://fyi.cnn.com/LAW/trials.and.cases/case.files/0012/embassy.bombing/

In addition to the trials, Clinton signed an executive directive to freeze all of the U.S. assets of Osama Bin Laden. The United States sent Cruise Missles to attack Osama Bin Laden's facilities in Somalia and Afghanistan:

http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/terror/crs98091.htm

...for this he was accused by many of trying to deflect attention from his impending impeachment trial. (Remember the comparisons to 'Wag the Dog'?)

i After the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia,
i which killed 19 and injured 200 U.S. military personnel, Clinton
i promised that those responsible would be hunted down and punished.

June 22, 2001, Indictments were handed down in the Khobar Towers bombings:

http://www4.cnn.com/2001/LAW/06/21/khobar.indictments/

i After the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole, which killed 17
i and injured 3 U.S. sailors, Clinton promised that those
i responsible would be hunted down and punished.

The Cole was bombed on October 12th. George W. Bush was inaugurated January 20, 2001. I don't think it would be absolutely fair to condemn President Clinton for not getting to the bottom of the bombing in that short amount i of time. I would point out that Bush has had more time to i investigate the Cole bombings that Clinton did, and still i no indictments have been handed down. However, things are starting to happen on that front:

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/10/28/inv.cole.suspect.ap/index.html

i Maybe if Clinton had kept his promise, an estimated 7,000 i people would be alive today.

Getting Osama Bin Laden, as we are now seeing, is not going to be easy. One could have argued that the bombing of the African Embassies afforded Clinton the justification for an all-out war on Afghanistan, but I think most people would agree that the political realities of the fall of 1998 (the impending impeachment trial) would not have afforded President Clinton the military options currently afforded President Bush.

Even if Clinton had "kept his promise" it is possible that the operatives for the Al Qaeda network still could have carried out the bombing. The Bush administration has warned that even if Bin Laden is killed or captured, there could be additional attacks against the United States, and that the war against Terrorism could take decades.

One could just as easily make the rationalization that the 1993 WTC bombing was the fault of the Reagan administration for pulling out of Lebanon after the 1983 bombing. No indictments were ever handed down for that bombing. Reagan bombed Libya, presumably with the same sucess as the Clinton bombing of Somalia and Afghanistan.

How do you feel about car bombs? In a 1985 strike against Hezbollah leader Sheikh Fadlallah, Willaim Casey (Reagan's head of the C.I.A.) helped finance an operation that included the hiring of operatives who detonated a car bomb outside the Beirut apartment building where Fadlallah lived.

As described by Bob Woodward in Veil, "the car exploded, killing 80 people and wounding 200, leaving devastation, fires and collapsed buildings. Anyone who had happened to be in the immediate neighborhood was killed, hurt or terrorized, but Fadlallah escaped without injury. His followers strung a huge 'Made in the USA' banner in front of a building that had been blown out."

There have been victories and failures by both Democrats and Republicans in the war against terrorism. Blaming the failures of the intelligence community during the Clinton administration for the tragedy of September 11th is simplistic and counterproductive.
I'll pass it onTig
Jan 4, 2002 11:29 AM
I'll pass this on to a few vet buddies, and they ALWAYS mass mail this kind of email!

"Shirley" isn't exactly Hanoi Jane, but her kind isn't much better.