|Martin Ganzel <email@example.com> bad trader||TomB|
Sep 4, 2002 8:16 PM
|Bought "brand new" head set from him. Had clearly been mounted and removed. Race had screwdriver marks from removal. Probably pretty new headset but not as advertised. Tried to email him to get explanation/resolution but he has not responded in several days. Noted he is the subject of much discussion below as well. Dishonest people like this need to be banned from the board. Buyer beware. Will forward this post to him to see if I can get a response. Otherwise, will probably file a complaint through pay pal to let him know that he can't misadvertise.|
|The most troubling thing is.....||getinthesufferzone|
Sep 6, 2002 5:11 PM
|That someone can clean and polish up a headset really nice to make it look like new - even though its been ridden for a year!
I mean on some... you could even pop the bearings and regrease them and pass the headset set off as - "only installed, but never ridden."
Which is most likely what his response will be. Then you've got to wonder if you can trust that explanation after he ALREADY lied and claimed it was "brand new".
If snakes still can't figure it out, the POINT is that one of the reasons why people purchase things "brand new" is that they are GUARANTEED that the item has never been used and they are paying for that guarantee rather than having to trust the honesty of the seller.
Would you trust a fictitious Chicago pole-lease officer who thinks that buyers that don't use PayPal and allegedly ask a few questions about the product have painful vaginas ????
|The most troubling thing is.....YOU!||bunnyo|
Sep 6, 2002 5:38 PM
|I figured it was only a matter of time before your immature rant against marty ganzel picked back up. Do you not have anything better to do? This guy (the headset customer) has a legit beef with Mr. Ganzel, you on the other hand 'lost the benefit of a potential bargain'--get over it and stop flooding the board with all of your hyperbole and invective about 'vaginas' and 'rent-a-cops'. Further irrelevant posts will just support the view undoubtedly held by many--you are a wanker who has an authority complex and has never and will never see the insides of a vagina...over & out|
|Dang it Bunny, there ya go........||getinthesufferzone|
Sep 7, 2002 3:29 PM
|You done went and hurt my feelings ! Geez, and all I did was read your header and didn't even waste my time with clicking on your actual post !
Listen Bunny, nobody is holding a gun against your head and forcing you to read any of my stuff, if you don't like it - just avoid it - by not reading it. Duh !!!
Perhaps though, a few people might differ with you - considering the fact that the last post that involved snake's creative trading practices (of which I am but a small contributor) is running at about 4,300 views ????
Shoot, and I thought that all bunny wabbits were nice and cuddley ! Maybe your daddy wasn't a wabbit at all... but just some nasty weasel that your momma was attracted to in a moment of inter-species passionate bliss? And she never got a chance to ask his name before he weaseled out the door to his next conquest !
So... would that make YOU ... a bastard bunny or a bunny bastard ?
And your current daddy... a real dumb bunny ?
|Dang it Bunny, there ya go........||red_ellsworth|
Sep 8, 2002 12:25 PM
|I was wondering when it would hit the fan. The interesting thing is that the complaint by TomB comes on top of a brawl over another "snakes" deal.|
|How do ! Bruce !||getinthesufferzone|
Sep 8, 2002 2:23 PM
|You know me, never one to shy away from existential discussions with fellow admirers -like Bunny.
So, what would Bunny's momma be? - oh, forget it, enough Bunny bashing for this weekend.
You know, I was on e-bay and I came across an old mutual friend - "carbonlord". I guess he's alive and doing well. For the uninformed, carbonlord is one of the great traders;right up there with Bill Larson from Orgeon.
A real gold standard trader - a whopping 193 happy customers and 0 neutral and 0 negative complaints! So if anyone out there in trader land is looking for a set of mtn or road carbon cranks with lifetime warranties - check out the lord of carbon on e-bay.
And what can you say about Bill that hasn't been said on the old gt/bt forum. After doing a few deals with customers, Bill's been known to actually ship the product out to you BEFORE he gets your payment! If you want a list of his goodies for sale, e-mail him at WLarson@inetarena.com - expect of long list of probably at least a couple hundred items and he can generally get just about anything you need!
Hey Bruce, do you know what ever happened to chuck gorohoff?(another outstanding trader -for the neophytes out there)
I was wondering if he is still doing any trading because the last I heard - he was working for Worldcom in Idaho and I suspect the poor guy probably got laid off with his company's recent "financial crisis".
No "snake-oil" snafus with those three traders!
|How do ! Bruce !||red_ellsworth|
Sep 8, 2002 4:17 PM
|Chuck is selling a lot of wheels off GT bikes. He has been on e-bay quite regularly. I haven't spoken to CL in a while but I have done business with him in the past year. Outstanding trader. Larry Klassen is another one who is aces.
That is what I do not understand about traders. There is so much risk as to condition of product that the least aggravation is the LBS unless you deal with someone like Bill Larsen, etc. I had to return something, got credit for it and life went on.
Even e-bay offers some risk, and some really nasty people. I always guarantee condition and offer 36 hours to notify me if they wish to return the product. I have not had that problem because I try to be very explicit about what is "good", "great" and "as new".
Meanwhile, I am getting ready to sell some Sidi Dominators, size 45. I ride flats now. Hopefully I will not wind up on this hit list.
|The most troubling thing is.....||derosa1|
Sep 10, 2002 12:20 PM
|I think I'm with the Bunny on this one. Don't you 2 juveniles have anything better to do but bash people on the internet. 'getinthesufferzone'---wow, I bet you make your badge and uniform proud. What? Not enough folks to rough up? If i didn't think you were too stupid---your little slam on the Bunny reads like a racial epithet---boy wouldn't your employers be proud.....|
Sep 10, 2002 2:40 PM
|First off, I know that you consider me to be juvenile but who is the other juvenile in "2 juveniles" ? ? ? ? ?
If you're referring to TomB, damn all he is doing is trying to warn cretins like you that "snakes" is a bad trader and save you some grief and money.
If you're referring to red_ellsworth, geez I'll admit that he's a 60 year old going on 25 but he has a rather prestigious position in the business world and you couldn't meet a kinder, old errr...seasoned man. And he's already done more for good trader/bad trader than you probably will in your entire lifetime.
Secondly, did I EVER say that I have a badge and uniform, c'mon derosa you assume WAY too much.
Just as you ASSUME that a couple of choice phrases to my lovely bunny wabbit reads like a "racial epithet". "Reads Like" doesn't mean IS.
You seem like a rather nice fellow and you should know that bunny wabbits have a propensity to - breed like rabbits- ever see the credit card commercial?
I was simply commenting upon inter-species mating as a possible cause for the apparent meanness of a provocateur that uses the handle of a beautiful creature that symbolizes sweetness - and in so doing - defames all wabbits.
For one to leap to "racial epithet" is not only incorrect, it is worse it's just plain illogical! And if it seems logical to you, then I believe that your judgement is clouded with other issues of race, color or creed.
Now I may be stupid as you say because that is such a subjective and relative call but I suggest that your thought processes lead to you erroneous assumptions because of the presence of abnormal neural pathways between your cerebral cortex and your limbic system.
I'll bash any bad trader that comes along in order to facilitate less people being ripped off by said person.
And anyone that gets in the cross-fire either out of ignorance or "misreads" is on their own!
On the other hand, Bunny if in ANY way YOU deciphered my post to you as a "racial epithet" then I sincerely apologize because it was not meant to be.
|Are you referring to me?||red_ellsworth|
Sep 10, 2002 3:00 PM
Two juveniles. I would accept that in a flash. However, if you are referring to me bashing Bunnyo, you are out of line. I respect Bunny's right to voice his opinion. How others decide to react is their business. I have never said one word concerning Bunny.
My shtick is the use of the terms "good", "excellent", "as new", etc. TomB may have gotten a great deal but was disappointed in the condition. Whether he would have paid the same price had the description been more accurate is for him to answer.
Over the years I have read countless complaints on this forum about "condition" of the product sold. I always feel it is better to wait on a deal if you can't trust or don't know the trader. For what it is worth I have made my recommendations as to who I would buy from.
But I also do business at the LBS since I don't need the grief. A time ago I posted my complaint about Monkey Bars and the warrantee. Some of you disagreed with me. That's fine but the LBS made good on both bars. Much easier than buying a new bar over the net and dealing with the company directly. I spent $20 more but had a $million less grief.
I always try to tell my kids (not always successfully) to look at the cost/benefit ratio of what you are doing. Is a used Chris King headset better than a new WTB that cost $30 less? If you would rather have the Chris King, save a little longer and buy it new. Sounds real simple since it is not my $30.
On the other hand coming down the last hill at Gemini Bridges to the RR tracks, I would prefer to have a new Chris King holding it all together.
I realize no one listens to me. My kids are getting better at it because they are older and they are humoring me as I approach senility. So you all will forgive a doddering old man who has wasted more money on bike parts than most of you have made and has at least learned something in the process.
Sep 10, 2002 3:59 PM
|Folks, don’t be fooled. This “doddering old man” puts more hours in the saddle in one week than the VAST majority of riders that frequent this site.
Shoot, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him racing in the Master’s World Championships in Bromont some day.
Bruce, you’re more of a sand-bagger than I am !
Sep 10, 2002 4:05 PM
|Folks, don't be fooled. This "doddering old man" puts more hours in the saddle in one week than the VAST majority of riders that frequent this site.
Shoot, I wouldn't be surprised to see him racing in the Master's World Championships in Bromont some day.
Bruce, you're more of a sand-bagger than I am !
Sep 10, 2002 4:55 PM
|You are correct sir. I have wrongly named you. Perhaps it has to do with the old adage about sizing someone up by the company they keep. But, in your defense, you did not 'bash' bunny O as did 'sufferzone'.
It just seems that 'sufferzone' has never actually bought anything from the people he bashes--and yet he comes here and bashes them--that's not informative or helpful. It makes the list look like its some sort of high school name calling free for all. I think people now know to steer clear of Mr. Ganzel. It was not necessary to go on and on about all the crap...whatever
I am sorry to have accused you of something you obviously did not do...take care
As for 'sufferzone'-----you should change your name to:
|Man, I'm trying||getinthesufferzone|
Sep 10, 2002 6:11 PM
|Don't you know that for me - this is all part of my research at Cal Berkley for my Master's Thesis entitled :
"The Provocation of Irrational Emotions On-Line".
Let's see, if you think that I should get a life - does that mean that I am no longer a "juvenile". Geez, derosa - I can't decide which insult is worse!
Seriously, if the good trader/bad trader forum is simply a laundry list of good and bad traders - unless some anal-retentive person daily inputs their names and e-mails into a computer database, and there is a single post such as -
John Smith cheated me - avoid , bad trader.
Then, VERY few people remember John Smith as a scoundrel a year from now! And John Smith returns and shafts some of the same people that read he was a bad trader - because they simply didn't recall that name and they didn't research the archives.
I've seen it occur OFTEN in the old good trader/bad trader forum! As has red_ellsworth for that matter.
Hopefully, adding a lively discussion to the postings on these scoundrels will make a permanent impression on the traders out there - so that they remember bad traders -one year, two years, five years from now - so that they don't get shafted like TomB.
I guarantee you that NOBODY will forget that with "snakes"- you trade at your own risk - come the year 2003 or 2004.
In addition, the barbs and bashings sometimes help to coerce the bad traders - to make good on a deal gone wrong - simply from peer pressure on this forum. It hardly ever occurs with just a solitary post or even multiple posts just by the same trader that was wronged. Because the scoundrel trader just ignores it !
And let's face it, short of taking some of these guys to small claims court - which is time consuming and requires a rudimentary knowledge of the court system - there is VERY little a trader can do once he's been shafted.
Lastly, I would hope that some of my posts provide some comic relief to the inherent BOREDOM of reading a laundry list of names followed by good trader, great deal, bad trader, screwed me, etc.
So, just lay back and enjoy the ride - because THERE IS some method to this madness- now, I've got to go to my KKK meeting tonight because we're doing an animal sacrifice ritual that I've been looking forward to all month !
|For the record||TomB|
Sep 10, 2002 5:01 PM
|I was just trying to warn people that he is not being truthful in his advertising. The product was not in bad condition, just not brand new. I would have paid less (approximately $20 less) for a mounted headset, actually would have probably paid the extra money for a new. So, he did screw me and never even returned my emails to him. That is perhaps the most troubling, he just blew me off. He probably could have pacified me with as little as $10-20 off, but to just ignore my emails seems to me to be directly against the ethic of this whole board. Or, maybe even a simple, "I'm sorry, it was mounted and never used." Nothing. |
I like buying and selling on this board and people like this ruin it for everyone. I understand that there can be differences of opinion about what constitutes excellent vs good, for example. But, these can be worked out if the two people have the decency to do so. He didn't. So, I told others.
Now, as for this other stuff, I don't know anything about it. I did notice that there was another post regarding this character and that it generated a lot of discussion. I thought it would be of interest to those people to note that snakes did this to me. Now you all know.
I am not going to complain to pay pal, I've got better things to do with my time. Not for $20. But, I will weigh in on this guy if others ask.
|For the record||red_ellsworth|
Sep 11, 2002 5:33 AM
You are made my point and appreciate the follow-up post. For $20 you have been aggravated. Not a great way to start or end a day when the mailman comes, you open the package, and find screwdriver marks on a brand new headset.
"New" is new. "As new" is new. If it has been ridden, installed or sat on it is used. Then the old adage that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" takes hold, and that is when the fights usually start.
I actually do sell on this net once in a while. For those who were interested in where Chuck went, try looking up better bikes (seller) on e-bay. You will find him alive and well.
Insofar as age and racing for me, it ain't going to happen. My great enjoyment is riding with my wife since I am one of the lucky ones whose wife can actually ride a mountain bike. (She also rides an ID) A big thrill will come first week in November when we ride with Dreamride (Moab) again and we will have our oldest son with us. He actually can ride but what a trip at this point in our lives to be able to ride with him. How great is this sport!
|re: Martin Ganzel, 2457 W. Wilson, Chicago, Il. , 60625||Maggiefan|
Sep 12, 2002 8:03 AM
|Holly Molly! I can't believe that DICK MARTY GANZEL ripped someone else off! If anyone wants to pay him a visit in chicago, his apparent address is: 2457 W. Wilson, Chicago, Il. , 60625. Hope someone pays him a visit and gives him a taste of his own medicine. Look for his Wal-Mart security car in the driveway! Good to see your support again getinthesufferzone!|
|I presume that||getinthesufferzone|
Sep 12, 2002 1:17 PM
|The address you've listed is for Marty's trailer park. I guess that the scoundrel finally got his double-wide back from the repo man.
Too bad that TomB didn't ask Marty a few questions about the headset prior to the sale...then he wouldn't have been stuck with a headset of indeterminate age and use - probably only a painful "pussy".
For the uniformed go to :
snakes "Anyone deal with firstname.lastname@example.org?" 7/29/02 9:05pm
If you never did get those sidi shoes, then try jensonusa for the best prices and stock selection that I know of.
If you are concerned about the size because of a slightly wide foot, the half sizes aren't really longer than the full sizes, they just have a larger toe box.
Actually a lot of racers that wear sidi shoes own two different sizes - one for colder weather - which fit like a glove -and another a half size larger for sizzling hot temperatures in the summer when your feet tend to swell on long climbs - which prevents numb toes.
|Not quite sure what is meant by the term....||TomB|
Sep 12, 2002 4:24 PM
|"painful pussy." What I do know is what "brand new" means. Have been dealing on the board for quite a while now with reasonable results. Brand new does not mean "as new" or "installed but not ridden." |
Of course, I could have asked more questions. You can always say that after getting screwed. Obviously, I didn't research it enough otherwise I would not be involved in this incident. All I had to do was read this board. Duh. Seems to me though that the onus of responsibility is at least equally on the seller to be honest.
I recently read someone else's comment on another board that arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics. Even if you win, you're a retard. So, with that comment I have now fulfilled my resonsibility to report. See you all next time this guy's name comes up - with a simple reminder that he screwed me too.
|Don't feel badly....||getinthesufferzone|
Sep 12, 2002 5:45 PM
|You should be congratulated for taking the time to report a bad trader; especially since it's a confirmation of devious trader practices by someone (i.e. snakes) who has already been black-listed on this forum by Maggiefan.
ALOT of people that get cheated - simply let it go and don't take the time or effort to warn other riders!
You didn't need to ask anymore questions to Marty! Brand new MEANS brand, spanking new. Marty also knows that. I was simply making a personal joke to Maggiefan about Marty's impatience with buyers. To appreciate the dry humor, you'd have to read the entire previous post on "snakes" by Maggiefan.
In regards to "painful pussy", Marty Ganzel (a.k.a. snakes) was making a sarcastic sexist comment regarding Maggiefan's manhood which is an insult to Maggiefan as well as all the female readers of this forum.
Again, accolades for taking the time and effort.
I admire the Special Olympians because they still compete despite horrendous limitations imposed upon them - which I wonder how many of us non-challenged competitors would still do - if we were dealt such a bad hand.
Shoot, most non-challenged competitors come up with reasons such as work, family, etc. for not training 6 or 7 days a week which seems to me are feeble excuses compared to trying to run 100 yards with one leg and muscular contractures of their arms.
But how would I know these things, after all, I'm just a juvenile that has no life.
|Thanks for the clarification||TomB|
Sep 12, 2002 7:45 PM
|and I agree wholeheartedly with your point about the Special Olympics. Just making the point, albeit rather poorly, that I wasn't going to engage in some debate about this. Rather, that my intent was one of reporting. Wasn't sure that we weren't headed down the "blame the victim" road. Glad we weren't. |
As for the Special Olympics, I actually worked with retarded children early on in my career and used to train these kids for athletic events. Pretty cool stuff. My hand can actually be seen in Jet magazine (many years ago) holding the hand of a blind, retarded teen who was running the 40 yard (I think that was the distance) dash. We would use a rope and a ring to help them run a straight line. And, some of them could motor. It was sports in its purest form and clearly one of the most rewarding things I have done in my career. Awesome stuff.