Jan 25, 2004 5:00 PM
|Okay, let's try this again.
Here I am in the home state of Trek, a land with some of the best roads, and bikes, in the country. Just plain beautiful. All around me are Treks, Harleys and Packers. We are talking brand loyalty here - God and country.
Here is my dilemma. While the Trek 5200 is the bike of my dreams (can't quite make the 5900 price range), the Scattante's CFR Carbon w/ Double Ultegra has certainly caught my eye's, and wallet's, attention. I'm drooling for crying out loud.
Who is Trek? Why we all know about them, their history, their spirit, their accomplishments, but who are these Supergo fellows that sell the Scattante line? With Trek, you go to a dealer. With Scattante you go online - to a far away place, to buy a bike that is not even American,(and I can't even pronounce the dang name - scat-ant-tea?).
But look at the specs. Look at the reviews, right on this website. Look at the features, the design, the carbon - all that dang carbon! All for $1000 less, at least! A serious comparison my friends - they are pretty equal.
What the heck am I supposed to do? I'm all for God and country, but 1000 bucks is a 1000 bucks. One-thousand-dollars. That is serious money.
I made a list of pros and cons. Scattante comes up short with service (who is going to work on my bike in this state!), and set up (some assembly required), resale value, and future (no dealers and who knows business future). Trek comes up short in price, that's about it.
Again: 1000 bucks is a 1000 bucks! But I love Trek and Lance and everything about it and my home state and God and country! Oh the humanity of it all... okay, too much drama.
Anyway, got any suggestions out there? Anybody?
p.s. I posted a message under "face-off" and only got a couple opinions. Hope this works out better.
|ummm ride both, fit counts, decide which. nm||torquecal|
Jan 25, 2004 5:08 PM
|buy the Trek||terry b|
Jan 25, 2004 5:11 PM
|"Scattante comes up short with service (who is going to work on my bike in this state"
if this is a serious concern, then your answer is obvious.
|... either way, you can't lose... you can't win...||Akirasho|
Jan 25, 2004 5:27 PM
|I can't tell you how many times I've rewritten the beginning of this response... and it's still not going anywhere... indeed, you could do a phD dissertation based on this topic!
Only you can determine the "value" and "worth" of each... balancing against your own personal wants and needs.
I can't tell you how many times I've rewritten the end of this response... and it's still not going anywhere...
Be the bike.
|LMAO, I've done the same thing.....||Dave Hickey|
Jan 25, 2004 5:33 PM
|I've tried writing a response many times and I still come to the same conclusion. Only he can pick what's best for him. He's really thought out the pros and cons. Now he has to choose.|
|LOL great idea for a dissertation topic||CritLover|
Jan 25, 2004 9:01 PM
|I wonder if it's been written already? Would be a great read. Actually, I wonder if it's not too late for me to change mine to "To Weyless or Not to Weyless? Sociocultural Factors in the Bicycle Manufacturer Decision Making Process." What would be better than interviewing cyclists, testing carbon bikes, and hanging out at the Trek plant?
|Don't let state pride drive you||spookyload|
Jan 25, 2004 5:47 PM
|The Trek isn't made in Wisconson either. They are probably made in the same country truth be known. You said one thing that rings out to me. A $1000 is a $1000. For the cost you save, you could even upgrade to the Dura Ace Scattante! As for who will work on it...any LBS will work on the bike. A shop doesn't care what brand you bring in, as long as you pay. I would go for the Scattante personally. Don't let USPS publicity hype choose your bike.|
|not true.. Trek's OCLV's are made in Wisconsin... nm.||russw19|
Jan 25, 2004 5:55 PM
|re: American Made? <-more important, Wisconsin made...||russw19|
Jan 25, 2004 5:51 PM
|If being made in America means something to you, and it must if you brought it up in your post, then maybe the fact that it's even Wisconsin made should matter more. Now you are not only supporting the economy of your country, but you are putting your neighbors to work and stimulating your local economy. I don't know about you, but that's an idea I really like.
By the way, I am not taking anything away from the Scattante frame... I have never riden one. But I didn't bring up ride quality either. See if you can ride one first. I know you can test ride a Trek before you buy it, can you test ride the mail order frame first too?
|re: American Made? <-more important, Wisconsin made...||Grahamalicious|
Jan 25, 2004 6:04 PM
|Like is said in your other post (not knowng you were a fellow wisconsinite) Go local. The money spent will go to the LBS down the street, and to the local bike company down the highway, and to the people who work at trek VS the big mail order house in california and the people in taiwan. Besides, Trek does a lot more for cycling (and cycling in wisconsin) than supergo. (how many local events have you ridden sponsored by supergo?)|
|re: American Made!!!!!!||HENRY K|
Jan 25, 2004 6:29 PM
|Well put Grahamalicious. I certainly have tried my best to keep jobs in this country with my bicycle purchases. I am the proud owner of a TREK 1400 (WI), a Klein Pulse II(WA), a Litespeed Appalachian (TN) and I should be receiving my new Strong Frame (MT) any day. Some might disagree but I consider these quality made bikes. Did I pay more for them? I don't know and I don't care! I don't know if anyone remembers during the recession days of the early 80s when much of the American auto industry was unemployed there was a bumper sticker out there that read: "HUNGRY? EAT YOUR FOREIGN CAR!" Can it be said better than that?|
|re: American Made!!!!!!||divve|
Jan 26, 2004 10:01 AM
|You ensure local employment by offering good value. You don't do that by ruling out foreign competition. What if people from other countries suddenly stop buying American made products? That would cause a lot of unemployment in the US as well. The only thing I oppose is unfair competition. For the remainder it's fair game in the business world.|
|re: American Made!!!!!!||HENRY K|
Jan 26, 2004 5:11 PM
|You can't possibly think that competing with labor in China and Taiwan are fair competition for US labor. No Health & welfare benefits Pensions a livable wage. Give me a break. For every job that we send overseas it's one less job for your neighbor or relative or even you. Keep the manufacturing here!|
|re: American Made!!!!!!||divve|
Jan 27, 2004 3:33 AM
|Just for the record there are more places aside from the US and Asia where they produce bikes and belonging components. Since it's pretty obvious to everyone what was meant I didn't feel it necessary to specifically point out countries that I consider unfair competitors in some ways.
"For every job that we send overseas it's one less job for your neighbor or relative or even you."
That's a rather oversimplification of the problem isn't it? One of the points of economic growth is advancing our labor force to higher paying jobs and not having to do some of those low paying rudimentary jobs anymore. Key is to balance things out through gradual change and growth.
Jan 25, 2004 6:17 PM
|You are right that $1000 is $1000. If you want pure "value", then the Scattante is worth consideration. If you want the "better" bike, there is no argument - get the Trek.
From my personal experience, the Scattante bikes are marginal at best. I live in Phoenix where Supergo is a local bike shop so I can go to their store and try out their goods (whereas you probably have to deal with them on-line). In any event, I've test ridden both the Scattante aluminum and carbon road bike and was not happy with either. I didn't think either frame felt very "lively". And Supergo's assembling techniques are sketchy at best, so their bikes aren't built very well IMHO - almost like getting a bike from WalMart (parts on crooked, wheels out of true, etc). I have never purchased a bike from Supergo, but some of my friends have and they have had issues with them related to how they were assembled (not to say that all Supergo bikes are sloppily assembled, but it's a theme echoed both here and on MTBR.com).
In my mind there is a reason the Trek costs more:
1) Proven Trek OCLV frame - probably the best built carbon frame in the world. Scattante? It will be OK at best IMHO. My friend just passed on the Scattante carbon because he thought it was "dead" vs. the Trek. Of course, this is all personal opinion...
2) Warranty - Trek stands behind their frame with a lifetime warranty on their OCLV bikes. You don't get that with any other carbon frame.
3) Extensive dealer network - if you need help, Trek dealers are everywhere. Supergo will require you to deal with them via UPS if you have any trouble. Trek needs to support their large dealer network, so there is going to be some overhead there, hence more $$ for the bike (same as Cannondale, Specialized, etc) as compared to a mail order shop.
On top of that, I highly doubt the "real" price difference is $1000. Most Trek dealers will negotiate off full-retail price, so the actual difference could be much less. If you seriously want the Trek, it's worth attempting to bargain with the local Trek dealers. Use the price of the Scattante as a bargaining point.
Jan 25, 2004 8:51 PM
|You know what I ride. . . . Anyway, I was on a business trip and noticed a Supergo near my hotel. So I naturally had to check it out. I didn't ride the Scattante carbon, but saw them. Great values, no doubt. But they do not look as good in person as they do in the catalog. I thought the same about their other house stuff. I think "you get what you pay for."
I don't think you should spend $2k without seeing and riding the bike. Any bike.
Also, I think in the end it doesn't matter which one you get. In 2 or 3 years your gonna need/want a newer one . . . no matter which one you pick.
So don't stress it, get one and enjoy the ride!
Jan 25, 2004 7:01 PM
|This board knows at least one rider who had very good speed with his Scattante, at least for 3 miles.|
|re: American Made?||Woozy|
Jan 25, 2004 9:05 PM
|Not all steel frames ride the same. Same with aluminum and Ti. And not all carbon frames ride the same, either. Beats me how their rides differ. Maybe they even do ride the same. But comparing specs and assuming that these frames are identical just because they're made from the same material is misguided. (So you're still stuck with a $1000 dilemma, no thanks to me!)|
|Are you set on carbon?||Qubeley|
Jan 25, 2004 9:21 PM
|Can't help you with your choice. Just offer some alternatives. I've built 3 bike myself in the past two years, and spent enough hours here, eBay and various on-line retailers to have a pretty good idea of how to build a nice bike with a budget.
My suggestion is that you might be able to get a better bike(better parts, nicer frame, etc" while spending somewhere between 5200 and Scattante. Here's my "formula":
A DECENT FRAME/FORK: $500
DA/OP/32+Ultegra cog: $300
DA shifters: $200
DA f/r derailleur: $100
A DECENT crank/BB: $150
DECENT saddle/seatpost/bar/stem: $50+50+50+50=$200
brake calipers: $60
misc expense + assembly: $200
total: less than $1800.
What's a DECENT frame? a mid-level Alu frame, which can sometimes ride quite nice, Cannondale, Bianchi, etc; or a top-end steel frame that's a few years old, Pinarello, DeRosa..
Of course you will spend quite some time searching for deals, or waiting for that perfect frame to show up on eBay. But you can definitely do it, and will end up with a unique bike.
In pic is one of my bike built using the "formula", not too bad, huh? Smooth, responsive, weighs about 19lb. Not to mention TONS of snob appeal ;)
This probably confuses you even more, but hopefully you will end up with a better bike.
|Forget both and buy this||spookyload|
Jan 25, 2004 9:38 PM
|For the same cost as a Scattante, you could have this bike. This frame is arguably much nicer than both you have mentioned. It is made in California, and is a one piece carbon fameset, not bonded pieces like both you are looking at. Kestrel has been doing carbon frames longer than just about anyone in the buisness, barring Alan or Vitus. Keep an eye on ebay for Kestrels. They seem to go cheap there for some reason. Why drive a Mustang when you can have a Viper! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3654965280&category=7298|
Jan 26, 2004 7:13 AM
|Between the wife and I we have owned 6 Treks over the last 8 years. I believe that the OCLV's are the best bike for the money anywhere, IF THEY FIT. The OCLV frames, other than the WSD's, are tricky to fit a lot of us. After several years of fun filled riding I've decided that my 5500 does not fit me very well because I have a relatively short torso. The OCLV frames have a relatively low, longish top tube, short head tube, and high bottom bracket. This leads to a low handlebar. With 25mm of spacers and a 7 degree 90mm stem flipped I have a 3" drop from a flat saddle to top of bar. My saddle is adjusted all the way forward. I'm OK with that setup, but my next bike will have a shorter top tube. My Trek is a 56 cm and there is no way I could fit a 54 or a 58. I think Treks are great but they don't fit everyone.
|Sell your Packer's tickets to buy the Trek||bimini|
Jan 26, 2004 7:25 AM
|You have to have your priorities. But, don't ride your Trek while the Packer's are playing. I believe there is a state law in Wisconsin mandating that everyone in the state must watch THE game.|
|"made in Wisconsin"||ET_SoCal|
Jan 26, 2004 8:00 AM
|Why not look at the Gunnar bikes?
Not the expensive Waterford models, but steel, real and locally hand built in your area:
|"made in Wisconsin"||benInMA|
Jan 26, 2004 9:28 AM
|I think deep down you want the Trek really bad. You might as well get it, otherwise you will always wonder what you are missing.
I agree with the previous comment, Trek may be "common" and have no snob appeal but no doubt it is one of the highest performance frames on the market and no one has as much experience with Carbon as Trek. Maybe they weren't the first but has anyone designed and manufactured as many frames as they have? And does anyone else have the warranty?
|There are no old Treks, just new owners =) -nm-||CARBON110|
Jan 26, 2004 11:00 AM