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A local LBS... a rant, kind of....(26 posts)

A local LBS... a rant, kind of....funknuggets
Jan 23, 2004 10:29 AM
Went into a local shop that has by far the best bikes in the area, including LOOKs, Eddie Ms, Litespeeds, Sevens, Serrotas, Cannondales, Kestral, Gunnar, Waterford, Litespeed, Specialized, Cervelo, ...etc... anyway I walked in and find this super PHAT Ti Seven right in front and here it is decked out in DA 10, and real nice components and I get closer and what is on it... freaking open pros! WTF? Why on earth would a $4000 bike be spec'd or built with such mediocre wheels? I mean no slight to the wheels, cause they are great trainers, but if you are gonna spend that kind of $$$ on a bike, why on earth would you put open pros on it? Thats nutz. Either they spec it that way knowing some shmoe is gonna by it and wanna upgrade the wheels, but... I guess everything has its price. For goodness sake they had a freaking low end Cervelo in there with freaking zip 404s... sometimes I just dont get it.
re: A local LBS... a rant, kind of....Macho Man Savage
Jan 23, 2004 10:34 AM
Why do you care?
I'd race the hell out of it. Crash the wheels,Spunout
Jan 23, 2004 10:35 AM
rebuild them for about $5, and race the hell out of it again while kicking your a$$ all over the place with your $1200 wheels.

What kind of wheels would you put on it? How much does it cost to maintain them? Would you ever ride it, or just take pictures of it to post on some stupid board?


Relax...Dwayne Barry
Jan 23, 2004 10:43 AM
99.9% of the people who would buy that bike would never race it, with or without the nice wheels.

It's alright for it to be about the bike for some people, in fact, it's critical to the high-end bike industry. So what.
Nice responseGeekRoadie
Jan 23, 2004 3:48 PM
I like chi-chi stuff as much as the next guy. People who race also know that some of the chi-chi stuff can get ruined in a race..
Well if it had the phat wheels,Dwayne Barry
Jan 23, 2004 10:36 AM
then it would be a 5k bike instead of a 4k bike, maybe that's the reason.
sounds like a good shop nmgtx
Jan 23, 2004 10:43 AM
yah, they have some pretty phat stuff...funknuggets
Jan 23, 2004 10:53 AM
I guess I was just disappointed or something... I dunno. It just seems weird, Im not sure why it bothered me. I guess I would just have had more "ooooooh" factor had it had nice wheels. You know, more of a perception kind of thing. I agree, its no big deal... just one of those things. For me it was like one of those pictures we saw when we were kids where you look at a picture to find out what was wrong. It just makes me wonder what they were thinking when they built it, you know?

I guess "rant" was the wrong term. There is just a certain aesthetic aspect to bikes that I enjoy and appreciate. When you have a super high end bike, I wouldnt expect to see someone purposely build it with all campy record and slap on a Tiagra know? I guess there are all types, and it really doesn't matter... its just a freaking mystery what some people are thinking.
those wheels are a far cry from a...Fez
Jan 23, 2004 11:02 AM
Tiagra crank that you used in your comparison. A Tiagra crank, although fine, is far from top-end.

Open Pros are fine rims, DA hubs are one of the nicest hubs. Defintely a top-end setup. I think you are just perturbed they didn't put snazzy "boutique" factory prebuilt wheels on it.

But the wheels are definitely *NOT* out of place here.

And have you seen the price of DA10 7800 series hubs? I doubt you could get a set of those on Open Pros for much less than $400.
you're rightfunknuggets
Jan 23, 2004 11:28 AM
$367 at excelsports...$375 at CC

fine fine... all, jeez, ok I see the error of my ways.

As I said, Im not busting on the wheels. The da/open pros are fine wheels... I have them on my fondy... but again, it didnt cost me $4k!!! As I said, I was just disappointed. They have a ti/carbon cielo there that is just beautiful, and i believe it has record 10 and Eurus on it...which seemed more fitting.

Thanks for making me see the errors of my ways. I must be having a momentary lapse of cycling sense. I need a cure for my malady... I feel a sudden sickness. 50 degrees outside LATE.
Jan 23, 2004 11:15 AM
I'd take hand-built DA/Open Pro wheels over any wheel out there, especially when it means more money in my pocket. Kudos to a shop that doesn't necessarily go for the silly novelty/prestige/gimmicky upsell. I have no problems with high end frames and nice DA/Record groupos, but I think these outrageously priced wheelsets, bars, stems, seats, etc., are getting kind of silly.
Ask the Seven Odonata owner why open prosCoolhand
Jan 23, 2004 12:46 PM
Because a 32 hole Record Hub built 3x with DT Revo Spokes to a set of Open Pros is as light as a great many gee-wiz wheelsets when you break out the digital gram scale and actually weight them back to back like I did.

Oops, that's right. Many of those high end wheelsets weigh alot more then claimed.

So to get lighter wheels in the real world than the Open Pros, you either need to go carbon rims which (for the most part) means tubs, special brake pads and heartstopping prices, or you need to go crazy light low spoke wheels which lead to reliability concerns, spoke replacement disasters and a generally poor return on investment.

Have I lusted have the Zipp Z3's- yep. Have I wanted to deal with tubs, special brake pads, and $1000 wheelsets- nope.

Right now I am looking for a "race" wheelset, probably a set of Rolf Elans. But having seen a parade of over priced, overweight, and often fragile wonder wheelsets parade through my LBS I am taking my time before picking a set of wheels to go with my trusty Open Pros I have ridden for 3+ years.

Heck, for most racers they would get a bigger racing benefit getting and using a Power Tap wheelset rather then a set of flavor of the month wonder wheels.


BTW- Open Pros are hardly "Tiagra crank" level rims, they are quite nice.
Did the wheels stop you from buying the bike or your wallet?bimini
Jan 23, 2004 10:51 AM
I would say they may have had the right wheels for the type of market they are after.

Seven has a good reputation amongst serious road racers. Most of the road racers I know put 98% on the mile on the good old set of OPs and save the Zipps, etc for race day.

Good chance the person who buys that bike already has a couple of sets of race wheels. Also, everyone has a different opinion on what is the right race wheel. Why put another 1000 bucks into the cost of the bike and hope that they find the person that wants the SEven and that particular set of racing wheels.

Everyone needs a good set of training wheels. I your case they would keep you from falling over when you stop. (sorry, I could not help myself)
Definitely wallet....funknuggets
Jan 23, 2004 10:59 AM
New Fondy and a new LOOK 381 purchased last February and May respectively have slowed my major purchases dramatically. Although I am working an old fuji into a fixie!!!

I agree, I guess it was just a complete bike kind of thing... the zips were on a low end cervelo TT...

Agreed, still a beautiful bike.... But you are right. Im guessing they "might" be selling to the Johnson County uppities that will use the bike on the weekend rides or the club get togethers. They are in a pretty nice area, for sure. Those that are familiar with Johnson County, Kansas can attest. As I said, I just wonder what they were shooting for on that bike.
Definitely your attitudeWoof the dog
Jan 23, 2004 12:28 PM
I agree with your original post. THE WHOLE POINT of having a Seven with DA 10 is to have the fanciest stuff around. Made for geeks who piss themselves after seeing a bike frame so meticulously made to their spec. I say you don't need anything other than a frame of decent weight and quality to ride. Hell, downtube shifters are a great invention, and if not for racing I bet we'd still see many more of them around... but NOOOOOOOO, everyone has to have those dumbass STI. Please! So I find this fascination with expensive stuff kind of silly. I mean, bikes superbly made and pushing the limits on price or durability are nice; after all that is how we define what is bad and what is good - we need extremes to see the golden middle. So a seven in this case is pushing it in reasonable terms (too much of everything: price, amount of work put in), while Open Pros are that golden middle I am talking about. You do not need the best stuff around to enjoy biking. For me and many others, riding in itself is the goal, not who made my frame and how much it cost and how long it took to build and how long it will last. If my frame breaks, I replace it. If i crash, I fix the broken stuff. But that is okay, I do not need a perfect bike... just dependable like Open Pro's. There is a reason why I hate riding my race bike - because it is too nice. Yes, THERE IS such a thing as too nice, and it sucks caring about nice stuff.

Ahem... So, clearly, the two do not match. Zipps do belong on that bike, not some rugged proven Open Pro's.

And I don't care what you have to say, you'd have to threaten me with the gun to change my opinion. I am simply a righteous dog with correct conclusions... in this case at least.

Amen! There is a DOG...Spunout
Jan 23, 2004 2:05 PM
In Dog we trust.

Amen! There is a DOG...Woof the dog
Jan 23, 2004 9:10 PM

somewhat relatedJPRider
Jan 23, 2004 10:52 AM
My buddy has strange body geometry and so he got a custom ti IF with Record 10 on it straight from IF. He doesn't know a ton about bikes, and you guys can guess how much this bike costs at this point, and they gave him Campy Proton wheels. I was like, "ummm, what do you think of those wheels?" and he said he loved them. So good for him. To each his own.
I know....divve
Jan 23, 2004 10:57 AM
...there are a lot more expensive wheels out there, but I don't know anything that will beat OP/CX Ray/Record or DA hubs for quality....only wheels that might actually be worth more are aero and lighter. The rest just looks different.
I know....andre71144
Jan 23, 2004 1:57 PM
I agree and on another note maybe the LBS could be enticed($$$$) to change out the wheels.
mediocre wheels?ColnagoFE
Jan 23, 2004 1:56 PM
You're crazy. Open pros are nice wheels.
yer just brainwashed.Arnold Zefal
Jan 23, 2004 4:23 PM
well built OP's on a quality hub is the cats pajamas ("phat" for us old timers). if you can't win a race on OP's then you just can't win a race. Zipp's ain't gonna help, simple as that.
So they can sell you the pretty wheels later on.Spoiler
Jan 23, 2004 7:15 PM
People with the money to blow on that bike have the money to blow on whatever wheelset they want. But, the shop can't predict which overpriced wheelset Mr. Trumph will lust after. Maybe they're predicting that once he rides with a group, some blowhard will say,
"Nice bike, but how can you keep it rolling on those boat anchors? What you need it less spokes, more carbon.

So the guy immediately develops a complex about his underpriced wheels, goes to the shop, and says, "Order me the most expensive wheels you got."
Please buy the bike and send me the lousy OP/DA wheelset!pseudocrow
Jan 24, 2004 5:29 AM
I'll happily put them on my Pinarello Opera.
You don't know what you are talking about.............Len J
Jan 24, 2004 7:25 AM
but you'll learn as you get older.

Open Pros on D/A hubs are about the best wheelset you can but (If made by a good builder).

They are light as hell
They are Bomb Proof
They are easily repaired
They are incredibly comfortable

I built up a Serotta legend TI a little over a year ago. I spec'd it for the type of riding I do, Long 75 + mile rides solo in rural areas where I'mm miles from anywhere. I wanted (and could afford) components that were bomb proof, easily repairable and which I wouldn't worry about rain, or a few scratches. My Legend has Open Pros on D/A hubs.

Do they look as Cha Cha as Zipps? Of course not. Do I ever give them a second thought when I am riding? Nope.

Sometimes you spec something for its use as opposed to it's looks.

You'll learn that as you get older.

In my area....DaveLobster
Jan 26, 2004 1:00 PM
I am noticing a backlash of sorts against boutique wheelsets. More and more of the experienced riders I see are going with hand-built wheels, at least for training rides. In many cases, this is on bikes that normally come with some sort of "system" wheelset, so my guess is that it is a conscious decision. I view it as a kind of sophistication, that this person has been around long enough to see past the hype.

I personally think much better of the guy who hangs with the front group on his 'normal' bike with 'normal' wheels than someone with all the flashy stuff who you only see during the warm-up.