|A few choice words for my friend Udo Boltz from Cyclo Sport||CARBON110|
Jan 21, 2004 9:07 PM
|Ahem ahem ahem Udo. I found his commentary in this last issue to be at best sanctimonous. Why? When CS added him to the be a "journalist" I found his insights to the "local" pro scene on the continent very educational. It would seem it was very much like our domestic scene here in the states. Only over there of course its on another level. Not just performance wise but since that is what they do for a living and of course its far more romantic since cyclists have respect over there and of course all the history, world cups,tours etc etc. In anycase it was original since he cut to the chase on inside politics, who flicks who and why.
Now a few issues ago Udo claimed he had ""good reason and proof"" of why Lance would NOT win a 6th victory. Mind you he stated this in an issue from early fall...like OCt. or Nov of 2003. Since then he has not commented on it but has relented to offer us a dim and very limited perception that lost him alot of respect in my mind. Now I can understand Velonews or cyclingnews.com doing some sensationalism to attract and beat the drum of the unachievable prestigous 6th TDF win. How its a legend that no one has acheiveed it and so on....I respect it and understand it but...yawn, it reminds me of Greg Lemonds fisrt win or when they said Lance won '99 cause Ullrich and the bald guy ( I can't even say his name he is so embarressing ) were not in attendance. Give me a break
However, a rider like UDO should know better then to state those BS remarks he gave after suggesting he had proof. Then he offers up an explanation that an amature green news caster/commentator like the guy on OLN that everyone seemed not to like ( I thought he did fine ) in the 2002 TDF. Lets see, oh yes, Lance is getting older, his competition is getting faster, Lance apprently isnt motivated as he was in say 1999, he has more competition, he isnt superhuman but just a man. He could have added to the list: the moon has a stronger gravitational pull in Texas for it would have fallen right in unnoticed to the other suggestions or proof he offered.. Geeee thanks Udo that was particularly enlighting. I for one was astonished at these great discoveries and nearly fell off my chair at the thought it took 4 months for Udo to come up with them.
Disappointed. Because as a cyclists who trains year round and he himself having ridden in the same races as Lance should know its not about any of those things. NONE. They are mear trivialities that will count but not win or lose the race. Now if he had approached the idea like a TRUE journalist, he may have said something like "" I think it will be particularly difficult for Lance to win this year because the moon gets closer to the earth every year and Lance isnt getting younger"" Or offer some detailed tactics about the TDF route that may favor Ullrich and a combonation of attacks where riders like Vrenque and Mayo may attack with nothing to lose forcing Lance to expend unnecesarry energy yada yada. That would be TRUE journalism. Instead we get S#iTz Fragen journalism =/
Jan 21, 2004 9:35 PM
|he gets you this worked up?
i'm not gonna talk smack, but man, maybe it's time to find another outlet.
|That guy finished eleven (11) TdF and his hobby was...||Bruno S|
Jan 21, 2004 9:37 PM
|to memorize what kind of equipment each rider on the pro peloton was using during the season (e.g. Simoni uses a front Helium with a rear Ksyrium, Fizik Aliante saddle, Shimano group, etc.)
Just some trivia about your friend.
|A few choice words about "journalism" in general||dctrofspin|
Jan 22, 2004 6:14 AM
|As a former journalist and now a senior public affairs executive, I can tell you that the term "journalism" is very different here in the U.S. versus Europe. Dear Udo's observations and sensationalist approach are typical in Europe where the idea of balance, validation of facts, non-editorializing and the like are all but non-existant. In fact, the the news is more entertainment than a pillar of freedom and balance against other forces. Now, having said that, I could go on and on about the near joke-like state of news in the U.S. -- but at least most journalists or commentators here are required to at least attempt to validate the assertions presented in print.
BTW, NOTHING will drive the Europeans more batty than Lance doing the seemingly impossible feat of winning a sixth TDF. If he pulls it off, and he very may well do it, they will be baffled. This is the one part of the American architype that most Europeans just don't get...if Lance wins the race, it will be because he's just one extremely tough SOB from Texas who has more will than the other guys. There are many more fit, some who climb faster, and certainly many who sprint better. But none have the sh$t kicking moxy to win at any cost.
Jan 22, 2004 7:37 AM
|See, that's exatly my point. (nm)||dctrofspin|
Jan 22, 2004 7:46 AM
|go back into your closet and stay there...||divve|
Jan 22, 2004 7:58 AM
|....can't debate the indefensible....I just gave it an appropriate name and moved on.|
|Hey I never officially came out of the closet...||dctrofspin|
Jan 22, 2004 8:15 AM
|"can't debate the indefensible" Wow. Profound. Did you score highly on the IQ test in the ad on the website?|
|So, PA dude....||PseuZQ|
Jan 22, 2004 9:49 AM
|Agency or in house?|
|So, PA dude....||dctrofspin|
Jan 22, 2004 10:21 AM
|That would be in-house -- spent more than 7 years in agencies and the last several years at GM.|
|so.. what is the problem?||cyclopathic|
Jan 22, 2004 6:36 AM
|the guy has an opinion, his editor called it "proof" oh my god it is so CNN!
and what is your problem? Lance this Lance that.. who cares? Face it: wins or not Lance is history, and procycling isn't all about Lance winning some sh!ty french tour.
|ahhh ya blockheads missed the point =D||CARBON110|
Jan 22, 2004 8:32 AM
|Patheticcylo err I mean Cylopathetic, Udo made the subject Lance and despite your irritability with the focus so much on him it is a subject matter to be discussed greatly given last years Tour and the impact the man has on cycling in general. That aside, I think the point made in the difference between Euro journalism and American journalism is valid to some degree for sure. However the case can certainly be made for alot of USA papers too. Point in fact is that Cyclo Sport doesn't usually succomb to such tasteless blather yet they discuss it retaining some senseibility and practicality. If I may quote one of the readers:
"Cyclosport has their finger on the pulse, whether it be the pulse of cycling as a whole, but beacuse CS reminds the masses that the pulse is a pathway to the heart. Whether it be the heart of cycling or the heart of individual riders"
That is a good example of how the magazine would like to be recived. However my point was that Udo has made a journalistic error in his approach and delivery of setting us the readers up for this nonsense editotial. The advent of which was the end of a coloumn in Oct. or Nov. stating he had "proof" then waiting months to pass before addressing this BOLD statement. Finally when addressing it, it was delivered in poor taste and with no regard or for thought for his readers. The readers must be considered when you right for a publication. Cyclo Sport is probably the most widely received magazine on this side of the pond that is a Euro publication.
Oh by the way "yeah right", you might want to actually read posts objectively before thinking they are a tool for some kind of rage oir frustration. Perhaps you have been to too many "group meetings" lol!
Has anyone here read the article or do ya all just look at the pictures ROFL............just kidn
|You won't quit.||53T|
Jan 22, 2004 8:43 AM
|I agree with the other posters who say you should take a chill pill. Nobody cares what Bolts from the Blue has to say about LA or anything else. He is in the back of the mag because he is just silly drivle.
Udo did not lie about Lance, he lied about himself having some sort of smoking gun info on Lance. He did this to attract attention to himself. Nobody took the bait, except maybe you.
Isn't the magazine called "Cycle Sport"? BTW, Procycling from the UK is a better mag.
|Is the sensitivity level in here going up?||CARBON110|
Jan 22, 2004 9:04 AM
|Perhaps we could have like a bar code for the level of sensitivity in here so I know when the best time for you to post what I think about a popular cyclists inaccurate editorial is. Like a homeleand security kinda bar rofl. I guess its more important I be sensitive to how you fellow RBRs perceive me being overly rash LOL about this.
Apparently feelings are more important then the truth?
Perhaps I took for granted that a post like the one below about "Sheryl Crow wearing Lance out",well I thought since that is commonly accepted here that I wasn't going over board about Udo and his fact finding mission LOL. Yes it is called Cyle Sport, I was giving it a "personal name" for fun but 53T at least you made sense of the point coherantly and objectively. I know it was not to give my post affirmation but just you being you. However, Udo has a job, whether its perceived by the public to be a hack job it is a job none the less and he did it poorly
|Is the sensitivity level in here going up?||jschrotz|
Jan 22, 2004 10:50 AM
|Correct me if I'm wrong (and I might be), but I don't think there is any claim made by the magazine that Udo is a "journalist". He writes an insight/opinion column at the back of the mag. No more, no less. If you don't like his opinions and/or find his insights lacking, don't pay any attention to them. Did his column ruin your day? Did he offend your lofty notion of journalism despite the fact that he's not a trained journalist nor claims to be? Get over it already and take his column for what it is, an inside look at the peleton by a veteran of it who sometimes includes, horror of horrors, his opinions.|
|Your point is correct, sort of...||dctrofspin|
Jan 22, 2004 11:28 AM
|You're right that as a columnist he has much more rope from which to hang his subject matter on (or himself). But there are limits -- under basic journalistic ethic, you cannot knowingly make false claims. Again, this is not so much a matter of law as it is a matter of ethic. There was a case here in DC where famed conservative columnist released the identity of a CIA operative as a political payback to the operatives husband who was critical of Bush. While this was an "opinion" piece was no shelter for the fact he laid out classified information.
I think this has much more to do with the anti-Lance crowd getting a bit tweaked by the original post than it does with journalistic obligation. Anyway, you know what they say about opinions, they're just like a$$h_les, everyone has one. That's what makes these forums such a hoot.
|Someone forgot to take his medication this morning||pmf1|
Jan 22, 2004 9:08 AM
|Get a life dude, its just bike racing. Who cares what Udo Bolts says?|
|Dude? What is this 1985?||CARBON110|
Jan 22, 2004 9:21 AM
|Dooooode apparently like no one but me cares what Heir Udo has to say for real...shaw wicked right on bra!
Can I buy an intellect like yours so I can state: "Get a life dude, its just bike racing" I bet that applys to many areas in your life eh?
That's a bummer man, ya lets like just give up for real LOL!
|Don't panic, you'll graduate high school someday||pmf1|
Jan 22, 2004 10:40 AM
|And then probably get an education, a wife, a house, a job, a kid -- and you'll realize what's really important in life.|
|it's a flame bait||cyclopathic|
Jan 22, 2004 12:59 PM
|Carbon is either off medication or having PMS or both and def is not interested in hearing anyone but Carbon110 let it be|
|So like, Dude, its like a "forum" where people "dicuss"||dctrofspin|
Jan 22, 2004 9:22 AM
|issues that are like, relevant to the website. So like in this case, it's like, a road cycling forum, hence the the discussion. So c'mon, slam Udo! It feels, like, good.|
|rofl! For sur bra, lets like keep it real down in the field yo!||CARBON110|
Jan 22, 2004 9:27 AM
|Can't let da hood go to hel kno wat I be sayn homie =P|
|Do I detect racist undertones, G?||53T|
Jan 22, 2004 12:51 PM
|It is interesting that you point out a condition of heightened sensitivity, while at the same time expressing great dismay at something Udo Bolts wrote in his column.
I'm not really extra sensitive to this issue, just concerned that you may becoming unhinged. Read an issue of Bicycling, it doesn't have any controversial columns in it.
|Get a grip people!||dctrofspin|
Jan 22, 2004 1:16 PM
|A guy pulls out an article he read from a few months back to start a discussion/thread on a subject he didn't like. The idea of a forum is to stimulate thought and discussion and to PROVOKE responses. Of all the drivel that tends to get posted around here, this one was worth a read. I dare say he's not coming unhinged. And besides, what other avenue do the commoner's have to vent their disapproval and/or disgust over the nonsense in the press?? Revolt people!!! Oh my goodness, I feel my Howard Dean primal scream coming on ARGRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!|
|ROFLMAO thanks Dctrofspin!!! That was rich baby!||CARBON110|
Jan 22, 2004 1:43 PM
|Especially since I know Dean! That was gut renching! At least someone is level headed lol...ooops that's gonna cost me LOL!
I'm glad we are not all stuck in a room together or you might get beat up for writing something unpopular on the board labeled "ideas"
|For you all, with love from me..damn you guys are funny~!||CARBON110|
Jan 22, 2004 1:38 PM
|Racial undertones ROFL! Your out of context 53T sorry buddy. But that's no surprise from a Republican. Me bringing up Udo is nothing even remotely close to context of me emtoinoing sensitivity. I mentioned the sensitivity due to the fact that most of the responses are just silly.
Also where did this notion of me being overly upset come from? I made a somewhat articulate post about a professional cyclists and his editorial and my dismay concerning its FACTS. Then several people respond with using rediculous stupid statements, out of context arguments and jump on this "wagon" that this some how ruined my day LOL. In effect this whole post has done quite the contrary, it made my day!
The willingness to turn your heads and quickly dismiss everything but me pointing the finger at Udo, is what's really questionable here. If You don't agree with what I said is one thing, I can respect that for sure and by all means please prove me wrong. BUT, critisizing me for being hard on UDO or getting "carried away" HAH! That's like saying its OK for Udo to post false flagrantly preposterous opinions in a international synidicate but NOT ok for me to post my disapproval about it. You guys are killing me with laughter!! Really thanks!
I'm not trying to ponificate about something unfactual or undeserving, I'm attempting to make accountable something relevant to cycling.
----------------More Importantly X2 ---------------------
I wouldn't dream of holding my breath on account it might offend you BECAUSE I know for sure that my ethics are on the level of social conscienctiousness. In addition if you beleive my remarks in response to some of the hilarious responses are a depiction of those ehtics, you need to look up the word sarcasm.
|What's the problem... so Udo has a different opinion than you???||russw19|
Jan 22, 2004 10:27 PM
|Being that the race is still yet to take place, any and all speculations and opinions on the possibility and probibility of Lance winning number six is just individual speculation. The possibility definitely exists that he could win number 6, but the probibility based on the fact that no one else has done it would therefore remain low. However the possibility of him doing so being that he has won the last five must be considered high. But all that is just my opinion. It varies from Udo's but he has raced the Tour and can most likely form a more accurate opinion of what it takes to win than I can. At the end of the day, the Earth is still turning on its axis and the sun will still come up tomorrow, so why let this get you so worked up?
By the way, isn't journalism simply reporting events as the journalist sees it? If that is how Udo sees it, how can that not be "TRUE" journalism? All journalism is simply someone's description of events... it's never fact, and most often opinion and perception. Proof of this is as easy to find as asking two people who saw something happen what they saw... it is often not the same story even though both were witness to the event.
|russ my two wheel lovn RbR surfn friend, the problem is......||CARBON110|
Jan 23, 2004 7:30 AM
|Your first sentance rings very true to the point and is more of how Udo should have approached the subject. Speculatively
My tone in my post isn't even moderately upset and you missed the point....it was worth posting about a pro-cyclists inaccurate editorial on his "proof" he had that LA would not win.
IT IS OK FOR UDO TO WRITE AN INACCURATE EDITORIAL BUT NOT OK FOR ME TO POST MY DISMAY ABOUT IT ROFL!
What is upsetting and laughable are people giving me a hard time for pointing the finger at Udo and making him accountable for writing an inaccurate editorial in an international syndicate.
Facts are facts. They cannnot be changed by opinion or percp
tion nor are subject to interpretation. 2 + 2 = 4 not because I think it does but on account it actually does..for most peolpe anyway. Udo claimed he had proof, it was his claim and it is as equal a claim as saying Ullrich takes performance enhancing drugs or something. But then relenting and stating that Ullrich must because he beat Lance in the TT or something rediculous like that.
By the way, Journalism is NOT just someones dogmatic interpretation of events witnessed.
""All journalism is simply someone's description of events... it's never fact, and most often opinion and perception""
I guess some peolpe received a better education then others? It is the only explanation I can see for some of the responses here.