|Jan Ullrich's diary: "as if I would have never away been"||Elefantino|
Jan 16, 2004 9:59 AM
|Google the site. It's translated, so it's difficult to follow, but the gist is there.
|Photo of Ullrich, Vino and Zabel on the road today||Elefantino|
Jan 16, 2004 10:12 AM
|How long before Jan and the other T-Mobile guys get new||Fez|
Jan 16, 2004 10:18 AM
|bikes and have them painted to look like Giants.
It just seems like too drastic of a change for all those guys to be riding compact Giants.
BTW - did anyone on Team Once ride another bike that was painted with the Giant Once scheme?
|T-Mobile riders get custom frames||Coot72|
Jan 16, 2004 10:34 AM
|I don't think they just choose from S, M or L sizes.
|I heard of that, but||Fez|
Jan 16, 2004 11:00 AM
|Maybe they have a good custom fit, but it still seems pretty radically different from what they were on last year.
Vino, Zabel and Ullrich were all on Italian rigs last year, weren't they?
And I wonder how Giant was able to accomplish custom frames for the Team? Is the construction like OCLV where custom is nearly impossible? Aside from the custom fit, are the Tmobile frames a lot different from the Giant TCR Team frames?
|The new Cyclesport has the article||Dave Hickey|
Jan 16, 2004 11:06 AM
|The teams get's to choose from 5 different sizes instead of the normal 3|
|re:I heard of that, but||mosovich|
Jan 16, 2004 11:07 AM
|I read that they just adjusted the stems, bars and etc. to get a custom fit. Like the OCLV, it's too expensive to make new lugs and all that stuff. See the article in cycle sport this month, I think it talks about it there.|
|I don't get it...||Asiago|
Jan 16, 2004 11:12 AM
|Tell me what I am missing here. If the spacial relationship of the sadle, bars, and BB are the same as their "old" bikes, what does it matter if the top tubes are parallel to the gound or sloping?
I'm no math guy or physics guy, so clue me in.
Jan 16, 2004 11:38 AM
|What you say makes sense. I'm sure the Giants can be made to fit all of those guys, given the team resources.
Regardless, pros still have their preferences and will go to great lengths to continue to use it, even if it isn't sponsor issue.
I heard Jan, like other pros, is quite picky about his equipment and likes to use stuff that he is used to.
|Cipollini is a great example||fracisco|
Jan 16, 2004 11:54 AM
|He rides a Specialized S-Works, but it does not have a sloping top tube.|
|Except Cipo rode an aluminum frame||Dave Hickey|
Jan 16, 2004 11:59 AM
|It's a lot easier to change an aluminum frame. Giant going from 3 to 5 sizes for Telecom is probably going to result in Giant offering 5 TCR carbon sizes next year. It's very expensive to make two more molds...|
|It will good for Giant in the long run IMHO||Scot_Gore|
Jan 16, 2004 12:02 PM
|Giant needs to offer more sizes. I think "only 3 sizes available" is the biggest appeal drag to the "discriminating" roadie.
|A medium-large TCR Composite would be great n/m||fracisco|
Jan 16, 2004 5:11 PM
Jan 16, 2004 2:14 PM
|Yes pros have their preferences, but it has nothing to do with whether the frame is of compact or traditional geometry. That was my point.
Jan 16, 2004 2:31 PM
|the original point was not compact vs. noncompact. It was that the Giant bikes ride and fit differently from the European stuff that Jan and the other guys were riding last year.
The only thing I'll say about the Giant fit this even with the jump up to 5 sizes, it still may be harder to fit someone who is in between one of those sizes as compared to a manufacturer that offers custom or 1cm increments in the size offerings.
|I'm with you...||Dwayne Barry|
Jan 16, 2004 1:42 PM
|I can't see how it matters if the frame is "compact" or not, as long as the basic relationships for rider fit can be set up. It would seem to me that differences in seat tube or head tube angle or effective top tube length would be way more important than if it were a compact frame or not.|
|well stem length||cyclopathic|
Jan 16, 2004 1:57 PM
|and weight distribution will affect handling, also pros have pref to particular HTA. But generally speaking if you have exectly the same HTA/STA, chainstay length and front center, it wouldn't matter if TT slopping or not /except you can't fit big bottle on short seattube/. Problem with 3 sizes fit all that there's more gap btw effective TT length. It may or may not be a problem, depend on how much you have to play with stem length.
Jan has weird proportions, he might need custom frame and it is hard to make one with CF.
Jan 16, 2004 2:10 PM
"Jan has weird proportions, he might need custom frame and it is hard to make one with CF."
Other than him being a big guy, what is weird about his proportions. I do notice him running a long stem, but that could be because the big guy likes and can handle the long reach, rather than having weird proportions.
Jan 16, 2004 1:32 PM
|I recently heard that Jalabert (sp?) rode a titanuim frame, made by Merlin strictly for climbing, for many races. I guess he liked it so much he rode it for quite a few races over the year.
I heard this from a very trusted and knowlegdable friend in the cycling business, but can't verify it as fact.
I agree, hard to imagine those guys switching to Giant AND Shimano. Just doesn't seem right. (Not that there's anything wrong with those products by ANY means!)
|forget the frame, what about Jan's beloved Campy levers?!||collinsc|
Jan 16, 2004 3:29 PM
|The frame is a silly argument. We all know that you can tweak the things well enough.
We also all know, that good Jan loves his old 8-speed ergo bodies so much that he had them fitted to his ten speed racing kit. Very easy to spot the old pointy Campagnolo hoods under his hands.
What now that he is riding Shimano?
|Money makes things fit realy well!||853|
Jan 16, 2004 5:12 PM
|Besides, once he tried the 10 speed Shimano there is no turning back!|
|forget the frame, what about Jan's beloved Campy levers?!||Squint|
Jan 16, 2004 7:52 PM
|Maybe it wasn't so much his love of the older Ergo lever bodies but the poor ergonomics of the newer ones. If he's using stock DuraAce shifters then what does that tell you about the ergonomics of the new DA STI?|
|that theyre out of date? nm||collinsc|
Jan 16, 2004 9:32 PM
|re-badging a thing of the past||DanoK|
Jan 16, 2004 11:39 PM
|I know that it used to be quite common for pro riders to have bikes made by their favorite builder and then re-painted to match their sponsor, but I really think that is a thing of the past. I seriously doubt if it happens any more. Today's bikes are simply too distinctive to get away with it. Back in the days when all race bikes were lugged steel and basically used the same tubesets, it wouldn't be very obvious if a rider had someone else make his bike. But the variety of different bikes in the peloton today would make a switch like that immediately obvious and publicly embarrass the bike sponsor. Bike sponsors of pro teams used to do little more than supply the team with bikes. But today, they pour a whole lot more money into their teams as marketing tools. They aren't about to let a rider publicly embarrass them by not wanting to ride their bikes.
I remember when Cannondale first started sponsoring the Saeco team, there were many posters on these boards that were sure that Cipollini was riding something else. They simply couldn't accept that Cannondale might be a top roadrace bike maker. But all you had to do was look at his bikes....they were obviously Cannondales.
I know there are examples of a bike sponsoring company hiring another company to make race bikes under their name for a team. For example, Cyfac making the MBK bikes for Cofidis.....but that is a different situation.
And I know that Lance's TT bike the first couple of years he won the TdF was a Litespeed painted as a Trek....but that was because Trek hadn't finished developing their own TT bike yet.
I really think its time we get over the notion that pros ride their own "special" bikes instead of sponsors' bikes....look closely at photos. I challenge someone to find a current example of this individual re-badging in the peloton.
|Helmets||Woof the dog|
Jan 16, 2004 8:45 PM
|So come on guys, don't be hipocrits (spelling?), don't create a double standard, say that they should always wear a helmet because god forbid they may fall on their head like that kazak guy. oh my god oh my god oh my god.
|Photo of Ullrich, Vino and Zabel on the road today||macalu|
Jan 17, 2004 5:05 AM
|Nice to see Jan back with his buddies at Telecom, or T-Mobile as now called. Gonna be an interesting season. Thanks for the pic.|
|It cost's too much to make a custom bike?||Dutchy|
Jan 18, 2004 4:45 PM
|I can't believe people actually think it costs a company the size of Giant too much money to
build custom frames for their Pro riders. What is involved? a new mould to pour Carbon into?
I don't know, but it couldn't cost more than a couple hundred thousand. The local (Australian)
Ford manufacturing plant will spend $500million re-tooling to bring a new model on line once
every 7-8 years. That's re-tooling for a whole car. We are only talking about frames and
possibly forks. Has anyone seen how much money these companies make.