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OK..I admit it. I'm a carbo addict(39 posts)

OK..I admit it. I'm a carbo addictPaulCL
Jan 13, 2004 7:03 AM
My wife and I did a dumb thing: we volunteered for something.

Her medical office is thinking about promoting a specialized "de-tox" or "cleansing" diet. Its' a 3 week program to detoxify your (OK,my) body of all of the toxins we take in from carbo's, fatty foods, processed foods, etc... To test the product, the staff and spouses agree to try it out.

So, we start this thing last weekend. Protein & fruit shake for breakfast, salad sans dressing plus some protein for lunch, salad + two veggies + 5oz protein for dinner. Only liquid allowed: water. snacks: fruit. No coffee, no wine, no burgers, no chips, no spices on our food, no chocolate, no bread, no beer....gawd! whats left to live for!

I'm at day three and it hurts. My wife and I decided that we are both seriously carbo addicted. A guy in my office walked past with two Dunkin Donuts and a cup of coffee and I almost tackled him. Why did I volunteer?? Becuase, per usual, I quickly gained 10-15 pounds the minute I cut down on my riding. Going from 150-200 miles per week to less than 30 but eating the same makes the food go straight to the gut.

They say the cravings die down in a few days. I hope. I'm posting this to the board for two reasons: One - if anyone has considered doing one of these diet alterations you can learn from me. Two: I have a tendency to be nasty and mean when I'm hungry so I'm apologizing in advance for any rude or mean spirited threads I start over the next three weeks! :)

Paul
re: OK..I admit it. I'm a carbo addictPEDDLEFOOT
Jan 13, 2004 7:12 AM
Keep us posted on your experience.I'd be interested on how you react to this type of diet.I to am a carboholic but I freely admit it and am comfortable with it.Oops ,it's break time.Think I'll go get a big bowl of oatmeal and a cup of tea. :-)
I hear ya. I gave up smoking and drinking but...Dave Hickey
Jan 13, 2004 7:31 AM
Give up carbs? NEVER.....
Do you have a headache?cmgauch
Jan 13, 2004 7:39 AM
I tried something like that once (not as extreme) & had a headache for 3 days. Finally a co-worker (tired of me complaining) said: "It's caffeine withdrawal, dummy". I had a few sips of coffee & my headache went away.

Good luck, and be sure to let us know how your workouts feel on this diet.
NoPaulCL
Jan 13, 2004 7:47 AM
I got off the caffeine a couple of years ago. I have a cup of decaf Starbucks every morning. When I 'decafed' myself a few years ago, I had the withdrawal headaches for about a week.

I lifted weights yesterday without problem. I am supposed to exercise moderately for 30-40 minutes per day. So tonight, I get on the rollers.

The worst part about the carbo withdrawals - and that's what it is - is that I don't ever get that full feeling after eating. I feel as if I'm kinda hungry all of the time. According to those who have done this diet change before, these feelings go away after 4 or 5 days.

The ultimate goal of this detox program is twofold: 1. to detoxify my body (obviously) and 2. to change my eating habits. No one is expected to give up carbs all together, but to lessen their intake. Cold turkey sucks.

paul
I'm on the Southbeach which is similarbimini
Jan 13, 2004 7:50 AM
The first two weeks is Strict No carbs of any type not even fruit. No Coffee. No Alcohol.

I'm on my second week and it is getting a little easier. (similar situation last week, someone brought in a couple of boxes of Krispy Kremes and it was tough to walk by them) Worked in a little cycling last week and was okay the first 30 minutes, by one hour I bonk. Just no glycogen reserves.

After 2 weeks I get to add back in modest amount of the right kind of carbs such a fruit and whole grains. I'm looking forward to that.

Once the weight is dropped maintenance should be easier. I just have to stay away from bad carbs, coffee and alcohol. On rides over an hour and 15 minutes (where I normally bonk without taking in any sugars) I know I will have to cheat and use the Gatoraid, but I fiqure it should not hurt as long as I'm burning more sugar riding than I'm taking in. I will probably carbo load for races and even drink a BIG cup of Coffee (I can smell it now). It will be a Great excuse for doing a lot of races this year, and who knows, I may be able to hang onto the little guys on the hills.
I'm on the Southbeach which is similarPaulCL
Jan 13, 2004 8:01 AM
At least I can eat fruit. When this three week regime is over, I'm going to go to Friday's for a carbo beer pig out feast of epic proportions. Then I'll go back to being good again.

Yeah...I am looking forward to my once a week weigh in on Friday to see if this thing has done any good. If I haven't lost any weight, I'll be VERY dissappointed.

Keep hanging in there. Paul
I quit them by and largeterry b
Jan 13, 2004 8:06 AM
never hit my summer weight this year despite riding more miles in early 2003 than ever before. figured that my carb intake exactly Equaled my exercise burn-off. I was in entropy, I was getting soft.

Labor Day Weekend, finished the last of those really tasty European chocolate-covered cookies than come in the big tin. Gave up cereal, potatoes, rice, pasta, bread, cookies, candy, soda - went completely cold turkey. Was a real bastard for the first week. Did this without exception for 3 months. Lost 20 pounds off of my relatively slim 172 lbs.(5'11") even as my exercise was waning due to the end of DST.

Subsituted fruit and nuts for the old snacks, added a second vegetable for the rice/potato/bread course at dinner. Desert became fruit and whipped cream.

Kept my pop tarts before long (2 hour or more) rides and PowerGels during the ride.

Suspended the rules during the holidays, ate and drank what I wanted. Minimal exercise, result = +1 pound over 3 weeks. Now I'm back in real life and it came right back off.

Worked for me, I no longer sit in my chair watching TdF DVDs and dreaming about Chips Ahoy. I was a carb addict, desert was a part of every meal I ate during my entire life (except breakfast of course where desert (cereal, donuts) was the main course.) I didn't think I oculd do it, but I did. I'm trim, it's winter, and I like it.
So, there is light at the end of the tunnel. Thanks.(nm)PaulCL
Jan 13, 2004 8:21 AM
yes, and the exile will end eventuallyterry b
Jan 13, 2004 8:47 AM
We've changed our regular eating practices to this style, but unlike the early part of the diet, we no longer sweat the small stuff. My wife also took a small(er) hiatus over the holidays than I did and actually lost an additional .5 pound.

Here in the stability phase, (which means nothing more than this is the way we're going to eat from now on) we'll have a candy bar if we're in the mood. We just don't do it every day.

Suffer early and reap the payback.
What do you have for Breakfast? (nm)landru
Jan 13, 2004 9:36 AM
2 eggs, nitrite-free bacon or oatmeal, 4 ozs. OJ watered to 8.terry b
Jan 13, 2004 9:49 AM
That was the only significant change to my original eating habits (other than eliminating the bad stuff.)

Big surprise here - not hungry again 1 hour after eating my old breakfast of toast or cereal with fruit and a big glass of juice.
breakfast inputPaulCL
Jan 13, 2004 9:59 AM
Before I went on this detox thing, I would drink a protein smoothie for breakfast 3 days per week. What a difference! If I had my normal bowl of cereal or oatmeal in the morning, I'd be hungry by 10am. With the protein smoothie (GNC vanilla protein powder, ice, fruit, yogurt) I wouldn't get hungry at all - which allowed me to eat a lighter lunch. But sometimes a man just needs his captain crunch. Paul
Interestingterry b
Jan 13, 2004 10:04 AM
I too went the smoothie route for a while and found the same thing - hungry at 9 am.

Added a small piece of canadian bacon and it pushed the hunger out, but I got really bored with cereal and ham.

The protein powder is probably what's doing it for you, I'll give it a whirl.
All this demonization of carbs is just insaneColnagoFE
Jan 13, 2004 9:07 AM
Carbs are not bad for you. Some carbs are not great--use common sense. Don't eat white rice, white bread, processed flour, basically junk food like cookies, donuts, etc. The stuff they said was bad for you BEFORE all these fad diets came about. Any diet that says bacon is a healthy part of a diet is suspect. In a year or so I'm guessing that all these fad diets will be debunked or at least proven to be what they are--a reduced calorie diet that makes you lose weight through calorie reduction--THE SAME AS EVERY DIET THAT WORKS!. If you are getting headaches and such it isn't because the toxins are leaving your body...it's because your body is trying to tell you it needs something you aren't giving it. Everything in moderation. Nobody is going to eat tons of good carbs--it's the simple carbs like candy, donuts, soda, cookies that are easy to overeat so stay away from those. And giving up beer and coffee? AHHHH....might as well just join a monestary. Live is meant to be lived--not to obsess over every scrap of food you eat (unless you are Lance and your income depends on it).
Yeah--whatever happened to the balanced, moderate diet?Cory
Jan 13, 2004 9:35 AM
I have tons of experience in this area, having lost probably 200 pounds in the last 20 years (10 at a time, every January...). But a physician friend is interested in weight control and diabetes, and he's been a big help. He's recommended a modified Atkins-like diet (less carbohydrate than most of us eat, but not zero, and much less fat than Atkins allows) for years, and he weighs less at 50 than when he was a college basketball player.
He stresses two main points: First, there's no point in going on a diet you can't stay on. Nobody's going to eat half a grapefruit for breakfast and a cup of broth for lunch for very long, and as soon as you quit doing that, the weight will come back. Eat modest amounts of just about anything you want, within reason.
Second, get as much exercise as you need to eat what you eat and keep your weight where you want it. He's not fanatic about it, but if we go out to dinner and he does 3000 calories of steak and potatoes, he'll work out an extra 15 minutes a day for the next few days. It works great for me in the summer--I lost about 40 pounds two years ago--but less well in the winter, when I have trouble getting the exercise in.
I agreePaulCL
Jan 13, 2004 9:49 AM
But I'm not on a "diet" though I'm hoping to lose weight. This is a 'detox' program. Then I go back to a normal - albeit healthier - diet. The carbs are only eliminated for 2 of the first 3 weeks. If I want, I can add a serving of brown rice at any time. I just happen to dislike brown rice.

The hope is that this program will spur me and other users to take a harder look at our regular diet.
probably a good ideaColnagoFE
Jan 13, 2004 10:04 AM
I have been guilty many times of just shoving handfuls of candy and snacks down my throat without thinking how they impact my diet. Taking the time to really evaluate what you eat and why is always a good idea.
exactamundo (nm)terry b
Jan 13, 2004 9:51 AM
Gee, sounds like the "Zone".KG 361
Jan 13, 2004 10:38 AM
Modified Atkins-sounds like the Zone. I started that eating plan YEARS ago and guess what? I feel great! The only time that I gain weight is duringt the holidays when I eat more processed carbs than normal. The Zone is just basically a good, balanced diet. What a concept.
If you look at the Zone diet closelyColnagoFE
Jan 14, 2004 9:30 AM
You will find it is also a calorie reduced diet--just like any other diet that works. Might not be enough carbs for a serious endurance athlete, but better than Atkins in that regard.
They ALL are.KG 361
Jan 14, 2004 10:31 AM
I've been using it more or less for at least 10 years. Works fine for me. As far as what yoiu catagorize as a "serious" endurance athlete, I'm not sure. I have made some concessions-during rides it's tough to avoid foods with more carbs than he suggests but before and after I pretty much stick to the 40-30-30 ratio. I know it's not magical, but I think it's no coincidence that I have had fewer colds, flues, viruses, etc in the past 10 years than I had in the past, even though I ate "healthy" then and excercised as well.
If done right, Atkins is nothing more than calorie reductionterry b
Jan 13, 2004 9:55 AM
I used the newer version of the Atkins book and adapted it to my lifestyle and the things I wanted to eat. In reality, going on this "diet" was nothing more than cutting out 1000 extra calories a day and changing my breakfast to prevent carb cravings at 8:30 am. It's why I no longer say "I'm on Atkins." I say "I don't eat crap carbs." Avoids the entire demonization of carbs debate.
Bingo!!!!! (nm)PEDDLEFOOT
Jan 13, 2004 12:26 PM
Not all these diets demonize ALL carbsbimini
Jan 13, 2004 10:47 AM
The one I am on will allow carbs after the 2 week introduction, but they need to be the right kind of carbs.

The goal of any of the low carb diets is to level out the spikes in the glycimic index and insulin load. The theory is after you eat any type of carb or sugar with a high glysimic index you spike your blood sugar, then the body produces insulin. Then the blood sugar drops fast and you are hungry again due to the low blood sugar so you eat bad carbs again and repeat the process.

These diets are simply trying to level out those blood sugar swings and in turn reduce hunger and then reduced calorie consumption.

I agree, it is the second law of thermodynamics - Garbage in equals Garbage out. If you eat more calories than you use you get fat, If you use more calories that you eat you get thin. There is no way around that simple fact,but these diets just are trying to dampen out the blood chemistry that causes hunger. If the hunger is reduced the behavior is easier to change.

In many of the diets not all carbs are demonized. Some demonize just bad carbs like simple sugars, simple starches and finely ground refined flours which spike the blood sugars and cause swings in the blood sugar / insulin levels. Slower digesting carbs with low glycimic index are allowed. (many fruits, real whole grain breads and pasta, certain types of rice)

The reason I chose to do Southbeach diet with my wife (after a bit of proding) is it allows some Carbs. I know I cannot ride my bike for long distances and/or at high intensity without some way of replacing the blood sugars while I ride. Shorter rides I will load up on good carbs before and during. Longer rides I know will require some Gadoraid or such.

If nothing else these diets are yet another way to focus on what you eat when you have given up trying on the other diets. If you pay attention to what you eat and don't stray you will loose weight. Straying is the tough part.
HEL-lolitespeedchick
Jan 13, 2004 10:53 AM
Good luck to you trying to argue common sense. The carb-hating Atkins-ites are so passionate. A friend of mine who read the book says it gives you rote arguements to use if anyone tries to tell you it's crap. Sounds like a cult to me.

note: this post not directed at RBR users who have probably modified Atkins to make it reasonable due to their above-average intellect.
ColnagoFE HIT IT RIGHT ON THE HEAD!!!davidxy
Jan 13, 2004 5:46 PM
"Toxins" from carbs? This is a "medical" office? MDs? nmcyclingforwealth
Jan 13, 2004 9:58 AM
"Toxins" from carbs? This is a "medical" office? MDs? nmColnagoFE
Jan 13, 2004 10:07 AM
I can see coffee...alcohol being somewhat toxic, but whole wheat bread and other decent carbs? Nah...though lots of simple carbs can spike insulin levels which isn't good for you. Better to keep them as stable as possible. Eat lots of small meals instead of a few big ones. etc...
"Toxins" from carbs? Not from the carbsPaulCL
Jan 13, 2004 10:26 AM
The "detox" is ridding your body of toxins left over from caffeine, alcohol, food preservatives, monosodiumglutamate, too much sugar, pollution, etc... One of the side effects of the 'diet' (I use that term loosely) is the...uh...well...looser and bigger than normal...oh...let's say...movements. This diet change (a better term) helps with the elimination of the toxins. The carbs are not toxins. The lack of carbs in the diet enhance the affect of the addition of the fruit and veggies. I'm guessing on that one since I'm not an MD.
just take some psyllium...it will clean you right out ;) -nmColnagoFE
Jan 13, 2004 11:15 AM
Take psyllium and aloe and you'll spend the day......:-) nmDave Hickey
Jan 13, 2004 12:56 PM
re: OK..I admit it. I'm a carbo addictal0
Jan 13, 2004 10:31 AM
Can they
b name
those toxins? Really, this diet is an almost complete nonsense. And, according to opinions of many physisians, it is unsafe for your kidneys (I am not medical person myself). anyway, it is your body so you may decide yourself.
Unsafe??PaulCL
Jan 13, 2004 10:38 AM
Can I name the toxins..not now, but I'll ask this evening and post it here.

Unsafe?? How can a diet rich in fruits, veggies, lean meats, and water be unsafe for the kidneys?? Do you really think flooding your body with pop, beer, wine, coffee is safer for your kidneys than drinking only water?? I think my kidneys are saying a big THANK YOU for what I'm doing. Actually, my water intake hasn't increased since I normally drink 75-100oz per day anyway.
Unsafe??al0
Jan 15, 2004 1:34 PM
If I understand your diet correctly, it has quite high protein.

Take a look, You have low carbo and low fat, yes? You need a energy for yor activity and massive weight loss is not your goal? And Nobody has repeal energy (conservation) law?Then you have to balance your enrrgy income and outcome. And in your diet you can obtain energy mostly from protein. So you have to have substantialy icrease your protein consumption, or you would not be able to follow this diet for any extended period of time. And this is not very safe for kidneys.

And bz the waz I am not sure that drinking of pure water is much more healthy then some beer, wine ad cofee (in reasonable amounts). At least I never have seen any sound proof (not pure speculations) of opposite, Burgers are deiiferent story,
Too much protein is unsafe. His diet no where near that. nmKG 361
Jan 13, 2004 10:40 AM
Revolutionary Diet Conceptdctrofspin
Jan 13, 2004 12:09 PM
I think the fad diets like the de-tox stuff is a whole bunch of bunk. Simplify is the best way. Eat less, workout harder, lose weight.

Also Eat often, with smaller portions, balance the intake between quality carbs and protien. Take one day a week to eat whatever you want and just get the cravings out of your system and enjoy life a little. It's not so complicated. I carried around an extra 12-15 lbs. for 15 years until I started to get serious about it...you'll be shocked at how fast it will come off.
I WAS a carb adict...haystack
Jan 13, 2004 1:31 PM
but no longer. I started Atkins in April, 2003. Lost 20 lbs. quick. First few days were tough, then it's total epiphany. Control the insulin and you control the weight and muscle mass.

My high carb diet left me iritable and wanting. After 54 weeks of training (2 marathons and 1 Oly distance triathlon) I was still at about 195-200 lbs., 19.5% bodyfat. I'm now 178 lbs., 13.9% bodyfat. I'm 6'1".

I've since reintroduced carbs back into my diet in a "periodization" type way. If I'm sedentary, just fat, protein and low carb. Weekly weightroom workout gets a chocolaty MetII shake with 40g carbs, creatine and aminos. My weight program from trinewbies.com has been great.

Fruit's no problem. I stick with LGI Low glycemic index)foods mostly. I just eat it when I need to spike my insulin, say after a long ride or a weight workout to stave off muscle catabolism.

I've used this diet program for triathlon, MTB racing and my first season of cyclo-cross this year. I'm no spped burner, but I did place twice in my AG MTB races.

I have lots more info for those truly interested. I'm not looking for a carb, no carb showdown. Just sharing my success.

BTW, my wife's on it, too, and she's looking hot at 123 lbs. I can't seem to keep my eyes or hands off her. A real marriage enhancer.

Cheers,
Sean
Thank you, thank you, thank youPaulCL
Jan 14, 2004 6:46 AM
You re-enforced my resolve. I printed off your post and am putting in a place I can read it every day. Thanks.

Paul

P.S. I'm 6'1" tall. What bugged me is that I hit 200lbs a week ago after riding all year in the upper 180's. If I could start the season in the upper 180's, then I'd definitely drop another few pounds. That's my goal. Thanks.