|Conflicting advice on Open Pros||bw77|
Jan 3, 2004 11:43 AM
|After reading thru the archives on this discussion board, I was all set to buy a Mavic Open Pro wheelset.
Then, I read thru the product reviews, and about half of them have a problem with clicking noise.
Has this problem been solved at the factory, or do new Open Pros still have clicking problems?
|re: Conflicting advice on Open Pros||rdbike|
Jan 3, 2004 1:17 PM
|Although I am on CXP 33's now, my prior two bikes had Open Pro's. I never had any problem with either set at any time. I probably put 5k on the first and 8k on the second. For the money it is a great solid wheel. Proper spoke tension and truing will make the biggest difference in any wheel.|
|re: Conflicting advice on Open Pros||lyleseven|
Jan 3, 2004 1:22 PM
|No problem with Open Pros. I have three sets. The clicking noise is usually related to the first ride. If you re check the builder's truing and adjust accordingly it will cure the problem. This happened on a set I built and a small adjustment to increase tension solved the problem. These are great wheels.|
|re: Conflicting advice on Open Pros||PEDDLFOOT|
Jan 3, 2004 1:27 PM
|I have two bikes with OP on them .I have never had a problem with the clicking.I think the problems people are having are due more to the build of the wheel rather than the wheels themselves. Make sure you get them from a good builder or have them done by someone you trust.I don't think you will have a problem though.My wheels have 6500 on one set and about 3700 on the other and have never had to have them trued.|
|The click is hit or miss...||ramboorider|
Jan 3, 2004 2:37 PM
|I've had several sets of OP wheels and one did develop the clicking. It took time to develop, it wasn't the builder (he built all the others too without any problems surfacing), and it couldn't be solved with tensioning. It's something to do with an extra piece of mital near the seam of the rim that can break loose in the rims internals and then click once per revolution. It can be fixed, but it's a PIA. Seems to only happen on rear wheels, btw.
Anyway, awesome rims, but the click CAN happen and it's incredibly maddening when it does. I generally use OP in front and Matrix Aurora in the back on wheels these days (the Aurora is also a great rim and has offset spoke holes to reduce dish). But I wouldn't worry about getting a set with OPs - the odds are they won't click and you can get it fixed if it does.
|re: Conflicting advice on Open Pros||russw19|
Jan 3, 2004 4:49 PM
|Yep, Open Pros click. There is a problem with the pinned joint separating causing the click. I work in a shop and I would say that from what I have seen, as much as 20% of the Open Pros I see click. Mine do it. It's annoying, but nothing to worry about other than it being annoying. There is a possible fix and that is to take a small punch and a hammer and hit the indentations at the rims where the pins are. It puts things back to how they should have been from the factory.
This is a problem with the Open Pros. Mavic is aware of it. It has ZERO to do with the wheel builder or any of that other nonsense that was put forth in this thread. Sorry, I don't mean to offend the people who said it, but it's 100% false. Open Pros click and Mavic knows it. Will yours? Most likely an 80% chance they won't.... but that's also a 20% chance they will. You can fix them when they click so it's not something to not buy those wheels over.
Also, you said you read the post about this... it's also the reason that in most of those threads a few people always bring up the Velocity Aerohead rim as an alternative. It's lighter and should be cheaper, and it's just as durable. Another great rim to look into is the DT RR 1.1 which is a fantastic rim. It's shaped much like the Open Pro, but (IMO) better made and it's lighter than the Open Pro.
Mavic has gone to pushing it's fully built boutique wheels and I think their rims are suffering. DT makes great stuff and their rims are no exception.
|re: Conflicting advice on Open Pros||lyleseven|
Jan 3, 2004 5:30 PM
|russ, your comments are well-founded and helpful, but certainly not the only cause of a click in a traditionally spoked rim such as the OPs.|
|I've heard the same thing||wooglin|
Jan 3, 2004 5:38 PM
|That its the joint that causes the clicking, or rather the backing that the pins holding the joint together go into. I have vague recollections that it can be easily fixed with epoxy or something like that, rather than a hole punch. I don't own OPs though, so I didn't pay much attention.|
|Lyle, do a search... that's the most oft stated reason why...||russw19|
Jan 3, 2004 6:09 PM
|Of course you could always just call Mavic and ask them about a clicking sound coming from your Open Pros and ask them what to do about it.
I can guarantee that they will tell you it's the pinning process and not the wheel build. They know it's a problem, but it's not a safety issue so there is no need to recall the rims.
Check into it if you don't want to take my word for it, I don't mind. But that's why Open Pros click. Sure it's not the only reason, but if there is a clicking sound coming from anywhere on your bike and you ride Open Pros, that's the first thing I would check. Someone on the Parts Board asked about a clicking sound from his bottom bracket... the first thing I asked was if he was riding Open Pros...
Ask around... if it's an Open Pro and it's clicking.. my explaination is why.
|Lyle, do a search... that's the most oft stated reason why...||lyleseven|
Jan 3, 2004 6:20 PM
|russ. chill out. I appreciated your explanation and said it was well founded. I have never had that cause be the source of clicking in my OPs. I am not disagreeing with you. As you said yourself, "Sure its not the only reason"............|
|Lyle, do a search... that's the most oft stated reason why...||russw19|
Jan 3, 2004 7:46 PM
|Chill out??? Where's that coming from? Did I give you the impression I was upset about this issue? If so, that's wrong, I could care less. My OP's click, but I don't give a crap, I just don't ride them much anymore.
You said it's not a problem with the rims, but the builder... that's not correct. At least not in regards to what the original poster asked about. He said he has read there are issues with this rim clicking... he heard it right. It's the rim, not the builder. If I need to chill out for telling you that, you need to not be so hyper-sensitive to people correcting you.
Happy New Year!
Jan 3, 2004 8:20 PM
|russ. You didn't correct me. the experience I had with OPs and a clicking sound emanated from the spokes. You offered a very appropriate explanation for the source of rim noise. I believe you. But that was simply not the source of the clicking in my OPs. If the rim itself was the source of the problem, your explanation is obviously correct.|
Jan 3, 2004 8:23 PM
|And, russ, re-read the posters issue raised. he at no time isolated the problem to the "rim" as you stated. Correction?|
Jan 3, 2004 9:04 PM
|Since Mavic doesn't make the Open Pro as a wheelset, and he asks specifically about the Open Pro, not Open Pro with Chorus hub, not Open Pro with Revolution Spokes... but Open Pros, isn't it obvious he is asking about Open Pros, the rims? Maybe if you didn't see that it explains why you are having such a difficult time with my posts.
Here's the part that caught my eye..." do new Open Pros still have clicking problems?" Do you suppose he was talking about Open Pro spokes? Correction???? OH! I get it now, he meant the new Open Pro hubs made by Campy! Nope, Open Pro rims. And I will say it one last time since you don't seem to get it.... THEY FREAKING CLICK!!!!!
OK, I am now done with this thread. It is getting to be you and I sharing an arguement, and not helping the poster. So I will say this specifically to BW77, Lyleseven, you can ignore this, it's not directed at you...
BW77, Open Pro rims click at the pinned joint. Sit back and check this thread again on monday when most of the regulars see it. You will see at least 3 or 4 more people tell you the exact same thing I am saying.
There, I am done. Lyle, hope I didn't offend you. My intention was soley to give BW77 the correct advice about Open Pro rims and the clicking he has read about. Anything other than that, I don't care about. So don't think I am pissed at you, as that would be the furthest thing from the truth. But I am done with this thread.
Jan 3, 2004 10:16 PM
|Sorry russ, but you just don't get it. The post asked about Open Pro Wheelsets. Not OP rims. I got it very clear and looked at the entire wheelset as the potential problem. You, quite admirably, came up with a proper diagnosis (apparently) that the rim was the source of the problem. But, don't go around accusing people of making "false statements", especially when they are trying to help someone with a problem. Nothing personal, but you seem to be very upset with people who don't agree with you, and, of course, this is supposed to be an open forum to share information. Peace.|
|Russ vs. Lyle... Russ wins! (nm)||Breakfast|
Jan 5, 2004 6:05 AM
|Russ vs. Lyle... Russ wins! (nm)||fastbike|
Jan 5, 2004 7:30 AM
|How so? Great details. I have had issues with this click unrelated to the rim as two other posters have mentioned. Russ' explanation is valid, but not the only one.|
|Fastbike, not trying to beat a dead horse, but....||russw19|
Jan 5, 2004 11:37 AM
|I guess I can't seem to get this thought or point across too well, but it's the same thing I was trying to get across to lyleseven. The original poster gave enough clues in his first post and his follow-up to that, that he was asking about a very specific problem. If you haven't experienced that very specific problem, then a whole OTHER number of vauge problems could sound like the cause. The very specific problem that he was addressing is the chronic problem of the rims clicking becuase of the pinning process. I keep using the word "chronic" for a reason... to let everyone know I am ONLY addressing that particular issue. But that issue is very pervasive and a ton of people who ride open pros have it. There are other causes of odd noises everywhere on your bike, but the original post wasn't asking about tracking down a random sound in the guy's wheels.. he was asking if Mavic had solved this one particular issue, as he had read about it and it was bad. My expanation was never meant to be the correct answer for the source of all mystery sounds emminating from a wheelset, just the source of a very particular one that was asked about.
I have Open Pros that click, and I work in a shop where, as I said before, as much as 20% of the Open Pros I see click. I knew right off the bat what the poster was asking about because I have too much first hand experience with that issue. It would make sense that if you hadn't experienced that same thing that you would read the post differently and not know it was asking about a specific problem, therefore a number of answers could have been right. That also seems to be the case with why Lyleseven and I couldn't agree. I was addressing a specific, he was addressing and abstract.
|It was never about that!||russw19|
Jan 5, 2004 11:26 AM
|He read the post one way... I read it another. I was trying to explain to the original poster that Open Pro Rims have a chronic problem, and he was trying to say that wheels in general can have noises from a variety of places. I wasn't doing a good job of explaining to him that I was pretty sure the poster was only asking about the rims and that specific click and was getting frustrated with what I thought was Lyleseven putting words in my mouth to make it out like I was saying something else.
So I was trying to beat the point into the ground that based on specific clues from the original post, I was positive this is what he was asking about. Lyle said he had 3 pairs of Open Pros that don't click so it makes sense (to me now...) that he wouldn't know what I or the original poster was talking about. He just hadn't experienced it.
Bottom line is both of us were trying to help someone as best we could, but he and I were talking about different things. I never got upset in my posts, I was trying to hammer my point home... and I can't find any fault in Lyle trying to make sure the guy got the best advice possible.
That's why this board is cool... because there are quite a few people who know what they are talking about here!
|were beating the curve!||rdbike|
Jan 3, 2004 5:32 PM
|5 or 6 of the guys I ride with train in the winter on Open Pros that dont click. If I had 2 sets that did not click, could one assume that the next 2 sets are going to be clickers. This is getting scary.|
|were beating the curve!||fastbike|
Jan 3, 2004 10:31 PM
|I agree. The likelihood of developing he click is remote. I have had several sets of OPs and never had a click due to the rim issue, but did have clicks related to the spoke tension and insert at the hub. This was a build issue and was easily corrected. Interesting from reading this thread that some people ruled out the spokes as the culprit in an OP set. OPs are great wheels and wouldn't hesitate to buy more.|
|who carries DT?||TUT2222|
Jan 3, 2004 7:16 PM
|So I can compare pricing. Thanks|
|who carries DT?||russw19|
Jan 3, 2004 7:53 PM
|The DT is usually more than the Open Pro. But it's also a brand new rim and it's lighter. Most importantly, having seen them up close and in person, and being an Open Pro owner, the DT is nicer and better made if you ask me. Just my opinion so take it for what it's worth. You most likely won't find many reviews on them yet as they aren't easy to find yet. But DT made a really nice mountain bike rim last year that was very well reviewed by all who rode it.
As for getting them, you most likely won't find them in too many mail order or internet houses yet. DT wants to get them to LBS distributors first. If you LBS deals with Quality or BTI (2 very common midwest distributors) then they can get them. I would guess them to be around $60 per rim depending on your LBS's markup policy. That should put them somewhere around 5 to 10 dollars more than an Open Pro. Again that is depending on your LBS's markup policy.
I would expect them to sell for about $50 once they hit the net and mailorder, but again, that is a guess based on the wholesale price.
Jan 4, 2004 5:57 AM
|I asked my LBS just yesterday for a price on building me a pair of wheels for my fixie project using OP's, but I can see if he can get me a price on the DT's also.|
Jan 3, 2004 6:40 PM
|I had the clicking. Its related to the pin as explained by others here. Its not that difficult to fix, just annoying, but don't let it stop you from buying the rims. They are hard to beat in every other aspect.|
|Not a problem....||zooog|
Jan 4, 2004 3:20 AM
|Russ is right on the mark in the ID of the source of the clicking noise. Mine click. It does not bother me. Great rim. If this makes you hesitate in buying this rim than buy another.|
|Yes, I was asking about the rims||bw77|
Jan 4, 2004 5:30 AM
|Sorry if I was not clear. I was asking about the OP rims. Thanks for all the comments.|
|re: Conflicting advice on Open Pros||biker|
Jan 4, 2004 11:57 AM
|I've been using OP's for about 4 years and from my experience the first year no clicking occurred.The second year I started noticing the clicking sound emitting from rear rim. After trying a number of things to isolate noise I found it was caused by the spoke nipple and rim ferel rubbing. After cleaning rim and putting small amount of lube in ferel area it's been noise free.|
|re: Conflicting advice on Open Pros||fastbike|
Jan 4, 2004 12:47 PM
|I had same experience with mine and it was not the rim itself that was causing the click like some posters believed was the only source of the problem.|
|re: Conflicting advice on Open Pros||MShaw|
Jan 5, 2004 10:47 AM
|Just to make another point, I have a pair of Reflex wheels. The front "clicks," the rear doesn't. I also had a 217 mtn rim that did the same thing.
Ya rolls the dice and ya takes yer chances.
Alternatives are: Velocity, Torelli, Ambrosio, Ritchey, etc. I have a pair of Velocity rims, and a pair of Ritchey Aero rims (not the Pro wheels, just an "aero profile" rim) that are fine. You don't HAVE to have OPs...
|I'll add my experiences||Eric_H|
Jan 5, 2004 10:52 AM
|I have a pair of Open Pros on D/A 7700 hubs. They are built with 15/16/15 DB spokes in the front and 14/15/14 (DS) and Revolution (NDS) in the rear. The rims were quiet initially, but after a very rainy and wet race a couple of years ago they both started clicking. I put a drop of lube at each eyelet and this silenced them for a while.
I rebuilt the rear wheel last spring with another Open Pro because the original had 3 broken eyelets and was clicking like mad. No amount of lubing the eyelets would silence it, and the spoke tension was very high (I build my wheels a la Jobst Brandt in the Bicycle Wheel). The front wheel was also suffering the same fate, but the eyelets were intact so I left it and the click is definitely the rim joint.
The rebuilt wheel was silent for months, until I put on a pair of Vredesteins and pumped them up to 135 PSI. A few km into the ride, and the rear started to click. Before changing tires I had been riding Michelin Pro Race at 110 PSI. The click in the new rear rim is definitely the joint pin, the same as the front. I have to wonder if I had continued to use the Pro Race at 110 PSI if the click problem would have surfaced.
At any rate, I think the Open Pro is a good rim, but they definitely have some quality control issues at Mavic. Some people absolutely worship these rims as the end-all be-all, but if I was building wheels again and wanted a box section rim I would try the Ambrosio Excellence or Excellight, or perhaps the new DT rim. I just recently built a pair of CXP33 rims on Chorus hubs, but they will not see use until the spring. I will be interested to see if they develop the dreaded click.