|Changing a Campy Chain...||OwenMeany|
Dec 17, 2003 8:50 AM
|I have been a Shimano user for all my riding life, however, my most recent ride is Record equiped. I have just turned my first 2K in miles and about to replace the chain (I have always changed my chain @ 2k wheather it appeared to need it or not).
Question: Is there anything I should know-Capmy Specific- before I replace this 10 speed chain?
Thanks for any input, jb
Dec 17, 2003 9:23 AM
|The Campy chain is different. You can attach it several ways:
1. Just do it like a normal chain, pushing a regular pin in. Not recommended by Campy.
2. Use a quick link like a Wipperman. This works fine, in my opinion.
3. Use the supplied Campy special link and special pin with the little plastic guide. This is what I usually do. You *can* use a normal chain tool with this, but must be very careful not to break the plastic guide. Also, you can use the pin *only* in the special link, indicated by the attached tag, as it has a special sized hole.
You can break the chain normally, just ensuring that you do it on the opposite end of the special link, assuming you are going to use it.
If you vary from the manufacturer method, and then have the chain break, possibly causing injury, good luck making a claim.
I'd either use the supplied special link or a quick link. People have generally reported good results with them, and they then allow quick, easy, and cheap frequent removal and replacement.
|some bad advice....||C-40|
Dec 17, 2003 10:06 AM
|Joining a Campy chain in the normal manner without a special connecting link or the Campy HD-L pin is a very bad idea.
The sideplates of a 10-speed chain are thinner than other chains and the pins have additional peening to hold them in place. If a pin is pushed out to remove excess links, the peening is destroyed. When the pin is pushed back in, there's little to hold it in place.
The only two safe methods to join a Campy chain are to use the HD-L pin, per Campy's instructions or use a Wipperman "connex" link.
Be sure to follow Campy's instructions, installing the HD-L pin in the one and ONLY sideplate with undisturbed holes, from the LEFT side. A regular high quality chain tool, like those made by Park tool can be used to install the HD-L pin, but you should drape the chain over the bottom bracket shell rather than the little chainring, to eliminate any tension on the chain while installing the pin. The supplied guide pin should provide adequate guidance for the HD-L pin. The only other trick is to stop pushing the pin in as soon as the enlarged head contacts the left sideplate. Be sure that the pin also protrudes from the right sideplate, per Campy's instructions.
The other way to join an Campy chain is with a Wipperman "connex" link. These cost about $5 each and allow the chain to be joined or removed without tools.
My last comment is too measure the chai stretch before changing the chain. It's a waste of money to change a chain that soon, unless you practice very poor maintenance.
I lube my chains with a 4/1 mix of oil and mineral spirits every 100 miles or less and can easily get 4000 miles from a campy 10 chain. Even after 4000 miles the chain usually only shows 1/2 the allowable wear, but I usually change it anyway.
|I wouldn't, but lots of people do||DougSloan|
Dec 17, 2003 10:37 AM
|Lots of people here have claimed that they just connect the 10 speed chain normally and it works fine. I wouldn't, but I can't dispute their experience.
Dec 17, 2003 1:58 PM
|Although there are folks that do this an say it works fine, they are not manufacturing engineers and don't have a clue about the risk that they are taking. My advice is based on sound engineering principles. If the peening is damaged, so is the holding power.|
Dec 17, 2003 9:14 PM
|hate to admit it but i'm one of the risky few that use a regular park chain break on my campy 9 and 10 chains and have not had any problems at all. and i'm a huge masher that enjoy's a hard sprint. i know i'm taking a chance per all the campy 10 chain info out there, but so far in over two years, no chain problems what so ever. maybe lucky, maybe the campy 10 chain info is over protective, dunno, but either way, no problems.|
|It may be bad advice, but...||miposy|
Dec 17, 2003 10:38 AM
|My campy chain broke at the "special" campy link in less than 100 miles. I was about 20 miles from home and didn't have a replacment link, so repaired the chain in the traditional fashion with a regular Park chain tool.
That was about 1000 miles ago, and other than regular cleaning and lubing I haven't touched it since. I'm making no claims here, just letting others know my experience.
Dec 17, 2003 2:03 PM
|I assume you are referring to the old "permalink" that was first used to join the campy 10 chain. Many folks had problems with this link, but most could be traced to poor installation. The permalink pins really did require a special tool to insure that they were properly pressed in place. Many folks made the mistake of installing both pins at the same time, since the campy tool was wide enough to do this. Unforutnaltely, only one pin should be pressed in at a time to insure that they both "snap" into place.|
|Yes, it was a permalink...||miposy|
Dec 17, 2003 3:03 PM
|...and was installed by a mechanic I've known personally for 25 years. That said, nobody's perfect and maybe it did get installed incorrectly (though a Campy tool was used).
However, I will say that I've been riding since 1983 and this is the first time I've ever broken a chain, including on my MTB which I ride much harder than my roadbike (I knew my mechanic before I started riding). Then, when I read on RBR how many other people were having the same problem I lost even more confidence in the chain. Now, based on you post I'm pretty sure I'll replace it altogether, but you can bet it won't be a Campy chain, or anything else that requires a special tool for installation.
|you have no choice...||C-40|
Dec 17, 2003 3:25 PM
|With a 10 speed system, all the available chains are of the "flush pin" design, where the pin does not protrude from the sideplate and heavy peening is used on both the pin and the sidelate to keep the chain together. No matter what brand you buy it will be made in a nearly identical way. This includes shimano, wipperman and IRD. With wipperman and IRD you get a no-tools connector link with the chain. The wipperman work great with a campy chain, but does add to the cost.
I'm pretty confident in the reliability of the new HD-L pin. It's a big improvement over the permalink, but if you want to remove the chain, a connex link is the safe answer.
|more bad advice||ChazWicked|
Dec 18, 2003 10:23 AM
|Replaced the pin on my 10 speed campy chain. I beat it up riding cross in the sandy muck. I understand why this is a bad idea. It seems to me that, given the successes of re-pinning, one might conject that the metal peening of the pin and the hole in the plate is more durable than originally thought.
It would be interesting to view the process under high magnification. I'll bet the metal simply stretches and returns to near original form. This is all conjecture but it could explain it.
Another explanation is that the chain *is* significantly weaker when this is done but those people who are inclined to use an old school chainbreaker are old school themselves and understand that you never shift under load or otherwise stress the chain.
|we've done that....||C-40|
Dec 19, 2003 4:51 AM
|Many months ago someone posted optical comparator pictures of a pin before and after removal. In the case of a campy pin, the peened metal is PERMANENTLY displaced - pushed upward, so it's of no benefit.
A wipperman chain fairs much worse. The peened material on the stainless chain that I have actually breaks off when a pin is pushed out. Metal shavings left in your hand are the clear evidence.
|You might consider a Wipperman stainless steel...||DINOSAUR|
Dec 17, 2003 10:13 AM
|I've gone through the same thing with the Campy chains. I do not have the Campy chain tool so I just dragged my bike down to my LBS and they changed it for me ($8.00 labor). The last time I went they were out of Campy chains and I switched over to a Wipperman Stainless steel. They cost a little bit more than a Campy ten chain but it comes with a Connex link. I think the Campy chains work just a tad bit smoother than the Wippermans, but the plus is they are easy to install and they last longer. I have 4K on my Wipperman and no chain stretch so far. But I'm mulling over going to a Campy ten with a Connex link, but I mull over everything...stay clear of the Wipperman nickel chains, I hear they don't wear for beans...|
|Wipperman, Shimano and IRD all make 10 spd chains||Mel Erickson|
Dec 17, 2003 3:30 PM
|I refuse to pay the price for a Campy chain. It's highway robbery. The Wipperman stainless is pricey enough but the nickel is much more reasonable, and works as well. The IRD is even less costly. I just put one on my new bike but won't have a chance to ride it until spring so I can't vouch for it's performance. I'm only assuming the Shimano 10 spd chain will work with Campy and I don't know how expensive these are or their availability. There are other choices.|
|Wipperman, Shimano and IRD all make 10 spd chains||divve|
Dec 17, 2003 5:28 PM
|$32 bucks for a Campy 10s chain is highway robbery?|
Dec 17, 2003 7:41 PM
|I consider ANY chain over $30 to be highway robbery. Plus you have to pay $15 or more for a replacement link and pin everytime you break the chain. Where do you get a Campy for $32. $35 seems to be the cheapest I can find online and much more at the LBS. A Wipperman Connex nickel can be had for $30 with a resuable link. The Wipperman stainless is highway robbery too. I bought an IRD for $23 with a reusable link.|
Dec 18, 2003 2:50 AM
|A lot of development and testing went into the Campagnolo 10s chain inorder to make it strong and reliable. An average cost of 1 cent per mile isn't too much to ask I think. If you wish you still can use a Wipperman link on their chains. Personally, I don't think it's worth compromising my system with a cheaper chain or something from another manufacturer. The original still runs and shifts the best in my opinion.
To CarbonTi. You can put your expensive tool to good use again provided you get their latest hollow pin Record chain, which standard included the Permalink....all good things really do eventually come to those who are patient:)
|Wipperman, Shimano and IRD all make 10 spd chains||CarbonTi|
Dec 17, 2003 6:59 PM
|32 bucks for a Campy-10 chain is not highway robbery.
Paying 65 bucks for the old Campy Permalink tool and having Campy obsolete it when they changed to the HD-10 in a year was highway robbery.
|$3 per year, what a savings...||C-40|
Dec 18, 2003 5:51 AM
|The typical difference in price between a campy 10 and wippermman nickel plated chain is $3. The IRD often costs more than a campy chain, depends where you're buying. The new shimano 10 chain will also be a few bucks cheaper than a campy chian, but it's narrower and designed for use with thinner cogs. No telling how it will work with thicker campy cogs.
How do you like the IRD and where did you get it for $23? Most places want as much or more than the price of a Campy chain.
|Jury's still out on the IRD||Mel Erickson|
Dec 18, 2003 6:51 AM
|Just built the bike and won't be able to ride til next spring. Got the IRD at Glory Cycles, Glorycycles.com
Right now they're going for $26 but I got mine on eBay from them. They auction stuff regularly and you can typically save a few bucks, even from their low regular prices. I'm liking them more all the time. Good people to deal with.
Dec 18, 2003 5:43 AM
|I get my new Campy chain and compare it's length against the one I'm replacing then use an ordinary chain breaker tool to pop the pin on the link that needs to come out then I put it together using the Connex Connector made for Campy. I run my chains about 2000 miles and this works for me over many chains I've replaced.|
Dec 18, 2003 5:27 PM
|I use a super-link the same way. Cost is $5.00. No problems and easy to take apart if needed.|
Dec 18, 2003 6:04 AM
Dec 18, 2003 9:55 PM
|simpy change over to Wipperman and be done with any issues......|| |