|Jimenez succumbs to heart attack||blackhat|
Dec 7, 2003 9:11 AM
|velo news link.
|Healthy ex Pro's aren't supposed to die...||zero85ZEN|
Dec 7, 2003 10:31 AM
|...of heart attacks at age 32. What the hell is really going on within Pro cycling. I can't help but be very cycnical after reading Willy Voights(sp?) and Paul Kimmage's books.|
|referring to physical, not mental health...||zero85ZEN|
Dec 7, 2003 10:32 AM
|...depression doesn't cause heart failure.|
|referring to physical, not mental health...||MikeBiker|
Dec 7, 2003 12:30 PM
|Makes me wonder what drugs he was being given at the hospital to treat his depression.|
|makes me wonder||blackhat|
Dec 7, 2003 1:36 PM
|what he took (recently or not) at the advise of his trainers. doesn't EPO raise your hematocrit level, thicken your blood and increase the risk of heart failure?|
|this is such BS||gregario|
Dec 7, 2003 3:35 PM
|So, the article said that a heart attack was suspected. He retired in 2002. You're making the strong implication that he was taking EPO and that what's killed him. I hearby excuse you from ever serving on a jury. What a bunch of crap.
It is really really sad. As a person who has suffered from depression for 30 years i was really rooting for Jimenez to make a comeback. He had flashes of brilliance in the Giro a couple years ago but just couldn't put it together. Depression is a b!tch that takes a hold of you and beats you down. Give him and his family some sympathy for god's sake, don't say he was taking drugs (and after he retired!!). It's not unheard of for seemingly healthy people to die unexpectedly.
|whoops, change 'Giro' to 'Vuelta' (nm)||gregario|
Dec 7, 2003 3:36 PM
|this is such BS||blackhat|
Dec 7, 2003 3:51 PM
|not so much on the strong implication. I have no idea what he took or didn't take and parsed my words as such. I wondered if it played a role as EPO can (and has to the tune of 17 dutch and belgian pros in 3 years) have such results. I trust his family doesnt frequent rbr.com's forums so Im comfortable with taking such liberties...
Depression absolutely does suck and I too "root" for anyone in its grasp to find a way out, but I question its relevance to his passing. Im a year younger than he and can't imagine a heart attack ending me anytime soon, so its perhaps appropriate to wonder what may or may not have caused it.
Dec 8, 2003 8:21 AM
|I don't think he meant his post as an insult...many don't understand that EPO is just short term results. The wonder if it is like other steroids that leave lasting effects. It temporarliy boosts the RBC count and yes it does "thicken" the blood by the increase in the RBCs to haul O2 in the bloodstream and boost energy. But with EPO in Cancer patients for instance, they generally need to keep the levels up and get it 3 times a week every other day or so...m-w-f. When EPO was first introduced...there were some dutch riders using it on their own. They didn't have good advice and were taking it directly and dying! They were clotting up their blood.
I think with a healthy athlete and a limit of 50! IT seems the hematocrit being over 50 is the only way of official detection. A smart athlete can probably still use small amounts of EPO to bring the level up while closely monitoring it to keep it below 50 while still benefiting from it's use. I don't advocate it but a doctor and I were riding awhile back wondering how many actually use this method which would be pretty reliable until they come up with something to detect it...he even suggested that if they did come up with a detection test the chemicals that would be detected would be gone from the system in a very short time while the RBC boost would be extended for a short period following use. Very interesting to ponder.
I feel horrible about Jimenez. I also wonder if depression is more prevalent in cycling...I know I suffer from depression as well. Vit. Z helps me. It seems that many cyclists have those natural endorphins flowing which keeps them happy til they slow down and then the levels drop...depression sets in. I am sure it is common to other sports as well.
|EPO has short term effect||cyclopathic|
Dec 8, 2003 11:07 AM
|somewhat around 8 weeks give or take. If he were out of competition for a year I doubt that's the case. Second with 50% rule even dopers are well within safety margins.|
|referring to physical, not mental health...||Scot_Gore|
Dec 7, 2003 3:12 PM
|Makes me wonder if heart attack is the public explanation and suicide is the private one. I suspect drugs 2nd.|
|very sad: depression is horrible!||colker1|
Dec 7, 2003 1:39 PM
|bad. really bad. it takes over and puts horrible hurt. ironic when it happens to someone who conquers mountains: instead of kissing the sky... he lands in hell.
on another side of the feature: the leader of the popular party in spain is a cycling fan and writes an eulogy to jimenez.... even if the popular party is VERY right wing, it touches my heart.
|so how long should a pro live?||ishmael|
Dec 7, 2003 2:30 PM
|Or I should say- how long should a pro live who doesnt take drugs?
I'm suspicious of the constant extreme conditions pros(without drugs) put their hearts through. the if it feels bad it is bad philosophy doesnt seem to apply with exercise though, but what about the extreme?
|two separate issues||CritLover|
Dec 7, 2003 3:16 PM
|The mental health aspect probably has little to do with his death. Unless of course, possibile past EPO use reacted violently with anti-depressants. DOubtful, since he's would have been on the SSRI's long before his hospitalization.
Secondly, there is no evidence that it is linked to performance-enhancing drug use. A friend of mine who is 42 and has been racing for over twenty years was given a pacemaker last year and would have died if not for the implant. They were told that a very small percentage of endurance athletes suffer a heart condition like this (I forget the exact diagnosis). I also read this week on Cyclingnews.com that Giana Roberge, the manager (or soigneur?) for Saturn's womens team, retired afew years back because of a heart condition. So, there is definitely a possibility that no drugs are involved.
Why doesn't everyone wait until an autopsy is performed before convicting the man of drug use.
|Millar: L.A. must have lost years of life during last TdF...||Bruno S|
Dec 7, 2003 3:51 PM
|During a recent interview with cyclingnews David Millar says that Lance Armstrong looked so tired at the start of some staged of this year TdF that it must have taken years of his life. It may have been only an expression but this post reminded me of the comment.
The interview is very good:
|That is the best quote from Millar yet. Mostly for its truth.nm||Spunout|
Dec 7, 2003 4:01 PM
|A GOOD EXPLANATION||plasticol123|
Dec 7, 2003 8:28 PM
|In patients that suferr for severe and persistant symptoms of depression they often use more yhan one medication to treat the illness, the first line of treatment are the newer SSRI's (prozac, zolof, etc) are relatelivly bening and do not have severe side effects. A second line of medications are the older MAO's inhibitors for patients not responding to the first line and can have significant effects in blood pressure and heart function, especially when given in high doses and not carefull monitoring.
If he was admited to a psychiatric hospital he was in constant watch, so that may exclude other possiblities.
Very sad, He will shure be missed.