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Year check on this bike please(34 posts)

Year check on this bike pleaseC-Ling
Nov 25, 2003 7:55 AM
Hi, can anyone please tell me what year they think the bike pictured on this link is?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3639632102&category=7298&rd=1

I have no idea, estimates welcome. Test your knowledge! Thanks.
Mid to late 80's.. nmDave Hickey
Nov 25, 2003 8:14 AM
I think your right onlotterypick
Nov 25, 2003 8:45 AM
My 88 bike is 105 SIS. My bike just before that, the peugot in bright yellow, I upgraded to SHimano 600 and that was 86-87.

That was my faithful steed through college.
I'm not a metallurgist, but....QuentinCassidy
Nov 25, 2003 8:16 AM
"Double Butted Cr-Mo Chrome Moly (I'm assuming aluminum, it's really light)"
Dude, CroMo is steel. Steel is REAL. nmSenorPedro
Nov 25, 2003 10:24 AM
I'm going to say 1992-1993 ish...TJeanloz
Nov 25, 2003 8:19 AM
The frame, I have no idea. But going by the components - namely 8 speed, non-sti Ultegra, I'm guessing 1992/1993 timeframe. Maybe as late as 1994. Dura Ace went 8 speed STI in 1992 (though I have seen some 7 speed iterations), and Ultegra followed either 1 or 2 years later. The fact is that this particularly component group was very short lived - it was the technological half-step between 7 speed SIS, and 8-speed STI, and was only around for one or two model years.
88 or 89, 8 speed is the big tip off nmPack Meat
Nov 25, 2003 8:19 AM
Were 8 speeds available that early? (nm)TJeanloz
Nov 25, 2003 8:20 AM
I wouldn't have though an 8 speed group was available pre-1990. But my memory of those days in pretty foggy.
I thought the 8 speed 600 group was dark grayDave Hickey
Nov 25, 2003 8:26 AM
I'm not sure if that's an 8 speed group. The 8 speed 600 had dark gray levers, shifters, and brakes.

Maybe the guy can't count
It was,TJeanloz
Nov 25, 2003 8:30 AM
It was that gunmetal bluish gray that the 8-speed STI became. But the pictures seem like the group might have once been that color - the pictures don't have good shots of any of the components though.
Ok, 88 was to early.Pack Meat
Nov 25, 2003 11:28 AM
According to the Shimano website 8speed was being prototyped in 88 so you have to guess this is a couple years later.
Wrong there on more than one accountrussw19
Nov 25, 2003 6:42 PM
First off that 600 group is a 6 speed group. They added an 8 speed freewheel and tell you that the shifters are friction, not indexed. That's the big tip off. They don't specify if it's freewheel or cassette nor do they say what the hub is, but I am willing to bet it's the original Shimano 600 hub, which was a freewheel back then.

The group on there is from 84 to 86. In 87 Shimano changed this group to a grey color and changed the name to 600 Ultegra. It also had a little 3 color band below the logo.. after 3 years they dropped the "600" from the designation and it's now just Ultegra. In 87 it changed to a 7 speed group. In 1990 it went 8 speed.

My best guess is that is a 1985 bike. It is Shimano 600 6 speed equipped and even has Bio-Pace on it.

Russ
1982 Shimano 600 had a cassette freehub...bicyclerepairman
Nov 26, 2003 4:44 PM
oiginal equipment on my Univega Sportour (that I purchased new). Its possible Shimano made two kinds of rear hubs that early....time to find my Sutherlands manual.
1982 Shimano 600 had a cassette freehub...russw19
Nov 26, 2003 5:09 PM
Shimano didn't make the full switch to cassette until they came out with Hyperglide. Otherwise they would have lost too much business. Shimano set up the industry to use non-interchangable stuff starting with index shifting. It required you to use a Shimano shifter, derailleur, and freewheel/cassette. They also said to use their chain exclusively becuase of the excess flex in chains not designed for index shifting. Then when they made the jump to 7 speed drivetrains they introduced Hyperglide. That was when they switched over to cassette hubs exclusively. That way you had to use their shifters, derailleurs, chains, cassettes and freehubs. They were the first company to try to FORCE you to use all their stuff. Prior to this, all stuff was pretty interchangable with the exception of a Helicomatic hub and freewheel. It started with index shifting, then came HG drivetrains, then STI shifters, then IG drive for off road... and so on...

Also, the guy who has this bike says the rear hub has no markings on it... so it could be anything, but if it's got 8 gears on the rear and doesn't say Shimano on it, I am willing to bet money it's a freewheel. And they added the 8 speed freewheel to it because they can. It's a steel frame and can be spread to fit 130mm spacing and since it's not indexed the extra gears don't matter.

As for the Shimano 600 group... I had a 1986 group with a 600 freewheel. I know that because I changed it to a 7 speed Regina Freewheel and turned off the indexing until I got a set of 7 speed index shifters later on.

In another reply I think you also asked about Miyata using proprietary tubing... They did that in 1988 and on when they went to triple butted and splined tubing. That was still made by Ishawata, but exclusively for Miyata. The frames didn't have an Ishawata tubing decal on them then though. It just said Miyata Triple Butted Splined on the decals.

And by the way, while talking about this bike, I never did mention that it really is a nice bike if it's in good condition. I think the winning bid was around $150 and that's a steal. Miyata made some very nice bikes back in this time as did a lot of Japanese companies. In fact, it is said that in 1985, the best off the rack touring bike you could buy, no matter the cost, was the Miyata 1000. If you ever run across one, grab it and restore it. You would be pleased with how well it rides and how well it was built. The Japanese bikes of this time were built better than high dollar Italian bikes. Bianchi had some of their high end bikes built in Japan around this time, and those bikes have a better reputation of quality than the Italian built bikes of the same era.

Russ
1982 Shimano 600 had a cassette freehub...bicyclerepairman
Dec 1, 2003 12:07 AM
Thanks for the tip on the Miyata 1000. I'd forgotten about that one. My favorite of the touing bikes I've ridden was the 1983/84 Univega Specialissima (probably equally rare) with the later 1986 Bridgestone T-700 coming in a close second. To be fair, even the Miyata 210 was serviceable.
You may well be right about Ishiwata, but Miyata's sales brochures from that time claim (I'm paraphrasing here) that the frame tubes weren't sub-contracted out...
Early 90s. Nice bike, nmOldEdScott
Nov 25, 2003 8:19 AM
can someone post the pic... firewall wont let us get to ebay(nm)funknuggets
Nov 25, 2003 8:30 AM
can someone post the pic... firewall wont let us get to ebay(nm)Dave Hickey
Nov 25, 2003 8:32 AM
I think . . .tmguy
Nov 25, 2003 8:32 AM
it is mid-80's 7-speed SIS Shinmano 600 presently with the DT shifters in friction mode to allow the user to run an 8-speed cassette; that explains the lack of indexing. In the old days you coud switch your indexing DT shifters from index to friction if your rr. dr. wento out of alignment or you had to use a spare freeewheel that was not index compatible. Back then there were a lot of other freewheel makers, Regina, Suntour, Maillard, etc.
That is the first generation SIS Shimaono 600, which came out it approx. 84-85. While 8-speed di not emerge until the early 90's, those components are definitely early to 80's. Nice stuff, but not DuraAce.

Peace!

tmguy (I guess I am revealing myself as an old guy.)
Bingo....Dave Hickey
Nov 25, 2003 8:35 AM
That is not the 8 speed 600 group...
That sounds reasonable to me (nm)TJeanloz
Nov 25, 2003 8:37 AM
probably rightrufus
Nov 25, 2003 9:01 AM
even 8 speed downtube shifters would be indexed.
He says the thing is 'non-indexed, no click click click.'OldEdScott
Nov 25, 2003 8:35 AM
If true that would be weird, and indicate someone has swapped at least some components, unless he doesn't realize there's an indexing option on the shifter (highly likely, considering the bike is cro-moly aluminum.)
I like how he spins that as a positive (nm)TJeanloz
Nov 25, 2003 8:51 AM
Yeah. Must be a politician. nmOldEdScott
Nov 25, 2003 8:55 AM
He says the thing is 'non-indexed, no click click click.'superdog
Nov 25, 2003 7:11 PM
cro-moly aluminum hasn't been invented yet. cro-mo referrs to a steel alloy that contains traces of chromium and molybdenum.

If I am correct... cro-moly aluminum is due to be invented in July of 2017.
My thoughts....funknuggets
Nov 25, 2003 12:52 PM
If Im not mistaken, and the pic doesn't really help much, but could this be a custom painted and outfitted version of a ~1983 Trek 700. I think this would be a Reynolds 531. The original version would have had Suntour Superbe, but the true way to tell would be on the top/flattened portion of the seatstays, it would say "TREK".

The wheels and components are not stock and perhaps "upgraded" from the original 6 speed. The 1983 700 had a similar paint job with the silver headtube. It also had the brake run atop the left side with three cable routings, and the rear dr cable ran above the rear chainstay.

Chris
1985 Miyata 612russw19
Nov 25, 2003 6:48 PM
It's about an 85. It's 6 speed Shimano 600. Pre Ultegra. It's non-indexed (either because they changed it to an 8 speed freewheel or the shifters were never indexed to begin with.) If the shifters are pre-index that indicates 84 or 85. It also has Bio-Pace... for the 600 level that indiactes 1985. It could be pieced together, but my guess is that it is a 1985 Miyata 612.

It was not 8 speed to begin with and that is not 600 Ultegra. It's the group that predated it.

It's older than any of you are guessing...it's like an 85.

I had this same group on a Schwinn Paramount back in 1987 and it was a year old when I got it.

Russ
1985 Miyata 612 a follow uprussw19
Nov 25, 2003 6:58 PM
Sheldon Brown claims that the Shimano 600 group went indexed in 1986 and by 1987 it was nearly impossible to sell a non-indexed bike.

The tubing on this frame will be Ishawata tubing as that is what Miyata used. It was good stuff, but never really took off here in the states. This frame was built in the same factory as more famous 3 Rensho frames (pronounced "San Rensho".) Miyata bikes were popular in the states for like 3 or 4 years as the dollar was very strong against the yen then, but by about 1988 to 1989 they couldn't compete here anymore due to the yen's kicking the dollar's butt back then. Most shops that sold Miyata ended up dropping the line and carrying more domestic built bikes like Trek Schwinn or Cannondale.

Russ
Miyata also made higher-end Univega frames withOldEdScott
Nov 26, 2003 6:46 AM
that proprietary tubing. It was good stuff.
Who was your source for that information?bicyclerepairman
Nov 26, 2003 4:30 PM
I thought Miyata used a proprietary tubing they designed andbicyclerepairman
Nov 26, 2003 4:47 PM
manufactured in-house.
Looking closer...funknuggets
Nov 26, 2003 7:48 AM
Im gonna have to agree that it may be newer, the steel decals on the fork and post are square, where I would have expected a triangle on the 83 Trek. So... I can say Im not familiar with the vintage... so you guys are the sommelier (or whatever) of fine bikes..

I wouldn't mind having one like this one though. What did it go for?
there's no doubt... it's a Miyata 612 from 85. I am sure of it.russw19
Nov 26, 2003 3:56 PM
The head tube still has the Miyata logo on it. The 612 designation meant it was Shimano 600 equipped (the 6) and the 12 meant that it was a 12 speed. I'm convinced it's an 85 based on non-index shifters. The 86 and later all had indexed shifting. Also, 1985 was when Shimano put Bio-Pace on the 600 level group. It lasted until 87 as an option. This bike has had the chain, freewheel, tires, and front wheel replaced, and possibly the rear wheel as well. But other than that, it's a Miyata 612.

Russ