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Welded carbon fibre?(10 posts)

Welded carbon fibre?zero85ZEN
Nov 24, 2003 10:46 AM
Check out the item description:
opps...typo...Carbon fiber (nm)zero85ZEN
Nov 24, 2003 10:48 AM
GluedDave Hickey
Nov 24, 2003 10:49 AM
Just another word for glued. Aluminum lugs and carbon main tubes
Nov 24, 2003 10:56 AM
I see the seller is from Asia, so there is a translation issue occuring...but wouldn't "bonded" be the proper english term to use when describing this type of frame construction?
Nov 24, 2003 11:26 AM
... actually marketed these as "welded carbon fiber" so while the technique mimics cf tubes on lugs, the seller's description is... accurate.

Be the bike.
Nov 24, 2003 11:41 AM
And the bike model is simply the WCF for welded carbon fiber. It was a gimmick to try to get some of Trek's market of the mid 90's carbon road bikes. Again the idea was to build a bike like the 3 tube carbon Trek and Specialized bikes but to cut the fat of the internal lug that the tubes are bonded to by just bonding the end of the carbon tube to a small section of cromoly and then TIG welding it together. It was a kinda cool concept, and I never rode the road bike version of this bike, but the mountain bike version just wasn't that good. We had one in the shop I worked at that never got sold... it may still be there for all I know... I may have to go back to that shop and see.

Nov 24, 2003 10:59 AM
Actually I remember when these frames came out. They first came out in 1994 with a mountain frame. It was Carbon bonded to a Cromoly tube, then the cromoly tubes were TIG welded like a normal steel frame.

It came out to compete against the Trek 2300 and 2500 series bikes. Those Treks had a carbon tube bonded to an aluminium lug. The idea of the Diamond Back was to bond and TIG weld to make the frame lighter. The frame never really caught on for 2 reasons... one, it's a Diamond Back, not a company known for good road bikes and two, because right about that time, Trek upped the ante by releasing the OCLV frames.

At the time that Trek put out the OCLV frame, it kinda signaled the end for all carbon tube bonded to aluminium lugged frames (funny how now Cannondale is revisiting this concept 10 years later) and that ended the WCF frames from Diamond Back and the Epic frames from Specialized. The OCLV frames were lighter, stronger, and stiffer and didn't have the same problems of paint coming up at the carbon aluminium lug that earlier Treks and Specializeds had.

That's as much as I remember about these bikes... there could be more to the story, but that's the basics of it.

Close...Dave Hickey
Nov 24, 2003 11:04 AM
Is it carbon wrapped or are just the lugs steel? This is the same seller that was selling NOS lower end Asian made LOOK frames. He must have some connection with the manufacturer
Nov 24, 2003 11:19 AM
Best as I can describe....

The 3 main tubes are carbon... they are bonded to a cromoly end piece at each of the carbon tubes ends. Then the frame is set in a jig and TIG welded together just like any other steel frame. But the carbon tubes are bonded to cromoly ends then built as normal.

And I am willing to bet that these frames were left over runs of stock for warranty use, but they are just now getting dumped. Same for the Look frames. What happens sometimes is a company will build an extra 2 or 3% of the bikes they sell to use for warranty claim bikes. If the level of claims drops to a certain number they dump the frames. I don't think Diamond Back ever really sold that many of these frames to begin with and I am willing to bet they haven't seen a warranty claim for one in a few years, so it's safe to sell off this inventory now. On top of all that, I think the frame was only warrantied for 5 years which really enforces this theory, as I think those frames were only made from 1994 to 1998, so they are now out of warranty if I am correct.

Timeline is right for the warrantyDave Hickey
Nov 24, 2003 11:27 AM
The LOOK's have minor cosmetic blems. To the sellers credit, he clearly states the problems. He's sold a couple of KG131's which were carbon main tubes and stays but they had KG121 decals applied. The KG121's had carbon main tubes but aluminum stays. Most of his LOOK's sold for around $350 to $400. He contacted me because I was second bidder on one and the high bidder backed out but I have too many projects going...