|Sliding tires in corners||Woof the dog|
Nov 23, 2003 3:58 PM
|Is it possible if you are going really fast through the corner to slide both tires and not crash? Some mountain bikers watching a crit claim they saw fast riders (like me ;-) doing that. I know you can do it on a mountain bike, but I call it bull for a road bike.
What do you think?
Woof the dog has returned... just for one question.
|Yes and now||Kerry Irons|
Nov 23, 2003 5:19 PM
|Yes, you can survive a two wheel skid on a road bike, though most of the time you'll go down. However your MTB buddies are most likely seeing what they want to believe rather than what actually happened.|
Nov 23, 2003 10:35 PM
|What is the point of skidding your tires in a criterium, or at all? You will undoubtedly lose speed as well as place yourself in unnecessary risk.|
|Railing turns is a misnomer||wooglin|
Nov 24, 2003 4:53 AM
|Sure. When you corner the bike still wants to go in the direction your mass is going so the tires slide, even if only a little, towards the outside of the corner. Happens everytime and if you're cornering hard enough its perceptible to the viewer. That's what I expect these guys were seeing.
Its when the tires start to skitter and bounce that it gets interesting.
|Railing turns is a misnomer||Woof the dog|
Nov 24, 2003 9:41 PM
|so you are saying that it is possible to see the visible slide at the max lean from the viewer's point of view?
woof the dog.
|I'd rather slide than bounce or skitter....||Spunout|
Nov 24, 2003 5:09 AM
|happens in a fast crit with a sudden rainshower half way through. The speed is already up, yet a bit of water turns the dust into slime and nobody has compensated yet. Usually okay if everyone is calm.
Worst is the rear wheel losing grip in a 35km/h(lumpy pavement, or even a crack) corner and dropping your ass a few feet outside your line. Did that once and didn't go down, don't care to do that again.
|We could always ask Joseba Beloki....sorry, had to say it (nm)||bigdeal|
Nov 24, 2003 7:33 AM
|it's a matter of odds||DougSloan|
Nov 24, 2003 8:08 AM
|Say your cornering is limited by tire traction. At 100% use of the available traction *at that moment*, you are cornering as fast as you can.
I'd estimate that even when I'm going as fast as I possibly can, I'm probably not exceeding 95% of available traction. At 95%, my odds of losing control may be 1%. That's because I've built myself a margin of error. However, traction is not linear or constant. It's very dynamic, depending upon the road surface, weight distribution, lean angle, speed, braking, etc. Things are constantly changing. So, if we could look at a graph of percentage of traction utilized in a corner, it likely would look something like 90%-95%-99%-92%-93%, etc. It may even briefly jump over 100%, that is, you are sliding, skidding, or hopping.
I think most of us value our bodies and bikes enough to keep it well below 100%. When approaching 100%, it is then far too easy to jump over 100%. When you do, I think your odds, at least on a road bike, of losing control may well approach 50% or more. Those are not acceptable odds for most of us, I imagine, even in the mostly tightly contested important races.
Yes, I have skidded, slid, hopped, etc., and not crashed. Every time, it was unexpected and undesired. The fastest way to corner and exit the corner on a bike is with both tires firmly connected. We are not Porsche Turbo 911's.
|So what you are saying is||gtscottie|
Nov 24, 2003 11:08 AM
|That you will only slide if the coefficient of traction is over come by the inertia of the mass and the best way of controlling a skid is to not get into one in the first place. :)|| |