|Is market on used Look bikes soft--or price too high?||teoteoteo|
Nov 20, 2003 8:04 AM
|Okay so my friend sells me his 2003 Look 381i frame and fork that is showroom new and after building it with my 2003 Campy Chorus parts and riding I figure that the fit just won't work for me.
I offer up on rbr classifieds for $2400 No pedals for complete bike, 1300 for frame and fork. Total miles on components are 1500ish--frame and fork has less milage.
Was the price too high? I got ONE inquiry on the bike which is not typical of my luck using RBR ads--I've sold 5-7 bikes but never had only ONE response.
Mail order sells for $1800(F&F) and I built bike to match my bike using competitive cyclist online bike builder--new cost $3400 before shipping. Keeping in mind that original retail/mail order was $2700 for F&F and $3400 complete bike price was based on $1800 F&F. I figure a bargin hunter would like a $2400 bike that would have cost him $4400 only a few months ago.
I listed bike accurately with good pics and it only has a few small scratches on drive side crank arm. I've sold a lot of bikes with great success so where did I go wrong on this bike?
|I think demand in general,||TJeanloz|
Nov 20, 2003 8:18 AM
|Look bikes are sort of out of the ordinary in the US. They have their afficionados, but generally, it's a little known brand (for frames). We used to sell them in the shop, and when people knew they wanted a Look, they would come in - but they were a tough sell to most people. Why, I'm not sure, but Look just hasn't won the US popularity contest.|
Nov 20, 2003 8:33 AM
|I think for US shoppers that got used to seeing the evolution of the OCLV frames from Trek the Look Frames simply look "clunky". When I first saw their frames in the Excel catalog they reminded me of my older bonded Trek CF frame...
Now that I'm older, slightly wiser, and have inspected a Look 361 up close I realize that these are pretty nice bikes. I like the matt black finishes too...
|Undeniably the Citroen of bicycles (nm)||TJeanloz|
Nov 20, 2003 8:39 AM
|Which is not necessarily bad - Citroens have legions of fans in the US...|
|That's a lot of the answer.||dzrider|
Nov 20, 2003 9:18 AM
|Built for comfort more than performance or style so they appear overweight and a litte funky for the high performance market their price puts them in. Anybody who's taken either a Citroen or a Look for a long ride will likely appreciate them.|
|That's a lot of the answer.||filtersweep|
Nov 20, 2003 10:38 AM
|I don't think they are that much overweight as much as they publish accurate weights. I'm guessing you'd have to sift through 1000 OCLV frames to find one weighing in at the published spec (at that size).|
|I don't know,||TJeanloz|
Nov 20, 2003 10:43 AM
|Most OCLV's I threw on a scale came very close to the published weight - but I haven't gone through that exercise in a while.|
|I don't know,||filtersweep|
Nov 20, 2003 3:51 PM
|Maybe it is just the build, but my friends smaller OCLV frame with DA/Ultegra mix is noticeably heavier than my Look- even though ostensibly the frame/fork of the Trek should be substantially lighter... and he has like a size 52 or somthing tiny (which is undersized and I'm on a 57 (which runs larger than a Trek 58).|
|The OCLV fork is a pig,||TJeanloz|
Nov 20, 2003 4:28 PM
|I'd be surprised if the frame/fork was lighter - the frame alone, probably, but the 1 1/8" Air Rail forks are not known for their light weight. The stock bontrager parts don't help either. It's more likely to be the build than the frame you notice, the total variance in frame weight from a light to heavy frame is what, 1 lb?|
Nov 20, 2003 7:25 PM
|You are probably right- And that is where the value of the Look comes in. I had my Look built with the exact parts I wanted for about the same price as an OCLV. The volume Trek dealer wasn't really interested in selling a bike without wheels (and I didn't want theirs and have enough anyway) but the boutique shop gave me a clearance deal and sold it wheel-less- a great deal. The volume Trek dealer really didn't want to swap anything out, now that I think about it.
Also, I'd take an extra pound up a hill if I meant more comfort any day... and frankly, I really like the industrial design of the nude carbon and funky lugs.
|Vin Diesel Line-up||teoteoteo|
Nov 21, 2003 6:09 AM
|The Trek house brand stuff is piggish for sure--their getting more with tht times though as their xxx lite stuff helps. In the shop we call them the Vin Diesel components because the xXx Logo is too damn close to that cheesy movie.
Alot of people like their wheels too but I just would rather have another wheelset.
|LOOK's website says weights are for 55cm||Dave Hickey|
Nov 20, 2003 11:07 AM
|Published manufacturers weights are misleading. The whole problem with frame weights is a 49cm frame weighs a lot less than a 60cm frame. There is not a standard industry size for frame weights.|
|Once got picked up hitching by a Citroen...real comfortable..nm||bent_spoke|
Nov 20, 2003 6:12 PM
|re: Winter is coming||hudsonite|
Nov 20, 2003 8:35 AM
|From a market perspective there are fewer buyers in the market right now. Winter is coming. In areas that will get snow and ice, road bike buying is next to zero. In other areas, that will get lots of rain, a Look 381 is not what you want to ride during the winter months. So the overall buying population is going to be much reduced.
There will be bikes purchased for gifts during this time of the year, but typically a gift will come from the store and not the classifieds.
The other item to consider is the price. A new 381i can be purchased for about $1350 (just purchased one). These are closeout prices as shops clear their inventory for the winter months and make room for next years models. This does not help you in selling the frame for $1300.
Come late winter, early spring, the market will be very different. There will be a ton more buyers and discounting is much reduced. You will have no problem selling it then.
|A couple of thoughts||Dave Hickey|
Nov 20, 2003 8:57 AM
|Anyone how is a regular on this board know my love of LOOK frames so here are some observations.
1. LOOK's stupid habit of changing numbers every year. The 381 is now the 481. It might help sell new bikes but it hurts resale of used LOOKs. They are also notorious for changing paint schemes every year. Again, it's great for selling new bikes but hurts the resale of older bikes.
2. Prices in the US are a lot higher than the UK. Totalcycling and ParkerIntl sell new LOOKs for hundreds less that Excel or an LBS.
3. Veltec/LOOK raised the prices a lot on new 2004 frames so I suggest you keep trying. Once people see get sticker shock on the 2004 models, your price seems like a great deal.
|a lot of the bikes are pretty high on this board||jimmyihatetoregister|
Nov 20, 2003 9:06 AM
|I think. I looked around for a used bike on this board a long time, looking for something like a Litespeed Tuscany with Ultegra, or a Dean with Ultegra. A guy wanted $2200 for 1 year old Tuscany with 8000 miles on it! I ended up getting a Lemond Zurich brand new for $1300 on sale. Granted I was not looking for as expensive a bike but the same logic applies. If you are going to pay that much you might as well look for a deal on a new bike. I am sure that Look is nice but your the 2nd owner already...|
|re: Is market on used Look bikes soft--or price too high?||gtx|
Nov 20, 2003 10:22 AM
|No offense but I think you'd have to be nuts to buy used AL or carbon. Also, $1300 will buy you an awesome new frame. When I think used frames, I think a few hundred bucks (I got a beautiful Merckx frame for $300), and even then I'm thinking a new Surly would be a more attractive option.
Anyway, I'd definitely sell it frame only for whatever you can get (perhaps no reserve on eBay?) and keep the parts if they have such low miles.
|Questions on Looks||kilimanjaro|
Nov 20, 2003 11:44 AM
|I like the traditional round tubed lugged looks, no pun intented, of their frames of a few years ago. I also like the laid back geometry.
Do you know where I can find geometry info on older models. I have short inseam, 30.5" so would get something no larger than a 51 I think.
Also do they have enought clearance for a 700x25 tire?
A local Performance shop has a 51cm 261 that I am visiting, though someone stole their geometry sheet.
By the way, why is it bad to ride a carbon fiber frame in rain, snow. I imgagine there would be no corrosion problems
|We're the same size and you should have no problems||Dave Hickey|
Nov 20, 2003 11:54 AM
|with a 51cm. I have the 261 geometry at home. The top tube is 53.??. I can get it for you tonight. Do they have the 361 geometery? The 261 frame and the 361 frame are the same.|
|Suggestions on what to check for used Looks||kilimanjaro|
Nov 20, 2003 3:55 PM
|I saw a special order 461 which I believe is the current rendition of the 261. I did not like the appearance. I much prefer the retro Looks like 261 and earlier models. Besides the new ones are around $1400 for the F/F.
Any suggestions on what years to avoid if searching for a used Look frame?
|Suggestions on what to check for used Looks||Dave Hickey|
Nov 20, 2003 5:19 PM
|I haven't any any problems with their frames and I've owned 10. The only LOOKs that had problems were the very early(mid 80's) frame|
|bikes in general aren't selling well right now||tarwheel|
Nov 20, 2003 11:57 AM
|Winter is approaching and many cyclists quit riding this time of year or cut way back. That limits demand. The economy still sucks, despite what the Bush Administration would have us believe. I've been following some auctions on eBay and prices are down in general. Your best options, I think, would be to wait until spring or lower your asking price.|| |