|So how was your morning ride!? (warning extreme venting)||OwenMeany|
Nov 19, 2003 8:51 AM
|Beautiful morning here in Marina Del Rey, so I decided on a quik 30 miler to the top of Mandelville canyon & back. Knowing this is the La Grange Club Wedensday ride route I thought I might be able to hook up with them too, as I have done it the past.
So I am about 1/4 of the way up Mandeville canyon rd when, as predicted, about 25 riders from La Grange come up on me..They were pretty well spread out at this point and I sped up a bit to get in to their pace and prepare to slip in..However, some A$$ on a SILVER SCHWIN wearing ComAmerica shorts refused to let me in. Worse yet he kept me traped between the line and the curb on an narrow winding road...I tried for a bit but then decided it was not worth it to fight over a wheel. I then dropped back and attempted to slip in behind him, being a jerk was not enough for this guy, as I dropped a bit he crowed me into the curb and down I went. A line of cars and cyclists had to stop short for me. I was lucky, some RR and a scrape on the CF chainstay of my CT1.
What kind of dork can be so self-important not to have any sense of safety on a morining club ride!!!!
To make matters worse, about 1 mile from home. Major blow out. Sliced tire. Walk home.
I least it was a really nice walk along the Marina to get home....
Nov 19, 2003 9:05 AM
|The guy does sound like an ass, but I suspect that you probably didn't help, either. When you find yourself getting trapped, all you have to do is say "hey, can I come over?" You gotta give up some pride, but it sure beats hitting the pavement.|
Nov 19, 2003 9:18 AM
|Why not on the back?|
|Was it No Sprint? LOL! Sorry to hear about your ...||Live Steam|
Nov 19, 2003 9:22 AM
|misadventure, but I have to ask - did you ask him to give you room? Did you say anything to him after falling?|
|Yes I did...||OwenMeany|
Nov 19, 2003 9:35 AM
|I rode up along side and said, "was it worth it, next time you should just let someone in...a$$hole." He keep his eye on the road ahead and did not even look at me...or say anything.|
Nov 19, 2003 9:30 AM
|In fairness this guy was not wearing any of the La Grange kit, so I do not know if he was affiliated with them..|
|re: So how was your morning ride!? (warning extreme venting)||MShaw|
Nov 19, 2003 9:42 AM
|Next time, get your bars in front of his and just move him over. Betcha he'll move! I've done this in bunches of crits, works almost every time. If it doesn't, then chances are HE'S going down, not you.
Don't try this with your bars behind his...
You may try asking the LaGrange guys if they know this guy, and to talk to him. Someone's gotta know him...
|re: So how was your morning ride!? (warning extreme venting)||asgelle|
Nov 19, 2003 9:52 AM
|So do I understand right - a group is out for a ride and comes on a solo rider who without asking decides he wants to barge into the middle of their group. When the group doesn't want this stranger in the middle their pack and tries to get him to sit at the back, the stranger gets upset because he feels it's his God given right to ride wherever and with whomever he pleases. And you're the one complaining?|
|westside mentality||king of Norway|
Nov 19, 2003 10:37 AM
|there's a lot of egos on that glorious strech of land. Interesting story as one La grange rider last year (also riding a Schwinn got in a fist fight during a race last year) Could be the same guy with too many roids raging through his system. I've met a bunch of good guys from La grange and a fair bit of a-holes there as well, its probably the same story with every club and in fairness you don't know he was a member. Sadly though, the story just parrallels driving/ riding anything in LA these days|
|re: So how was your morning ride!? (warning extreme venting)||legs|
Nov 19, 2003 10:53 AM
|look... it sucks what happened to you.. but if i am doing a ride and you aren't with me.. i am not letting you in...
get on back till its your turn to pull. its no mystery why he put you in the gutter.. you didnt respect the rules. you dont just jump on some ride and insinuate yourself in the middle of a break away group... it lacks any respect...
the thing you need to learn from your walk home is not to make that mistake again. yes he was dick... and could of told you just to go grab the last wheel..
that la grange ride attracts a lot of people that dont understand the dynamics of group riding and there have been a lot of injuries because of strange new riders doing dumb things...
and i think from what you are describing you got exactly what you deserved. consider it a free lesson. sorry to be so harsh. if it were me i would have treated you the same way... i am not going to let someone in who looks as clueless as you.. why should i risk breaking my neck so you can be a wednesday hero.. get on back if you want to sit in.
there are rules to pack riding. you just learned one.
Nov 19, 2003 11:07 AM
|They don't have to welcome him into the line if they don't want to. They don't need to make an effort to make room. They can try to drop him. They can tell him to get lost. But they don't own the road and they don't have the right to force him off it. Period.|
|so you rather...||mexican-JUMPING-frijoles|
Nov 19, 2003 11:08 AM
|cause a rider go down instead of telling them to move to the back?
riders like you disgrace the sport and just confirm to the general public that cyclists are cocky, arrogrant and have no regard for others.
|I sure hope you don't have a drivers license. (nm)||TFerguson|
Nov 20, 2003 5:10 PM
|Next time fall in on the back of the line and then take your||bimini|
Nov 19, 2003 12:38 PM
|turn working forward if the group is okay with you being there. It's their party not yours.
Now, if you were working with the group for awhile and the group allowed you in, but one idiot felt it was his duty to intentionaly ground you for no reason at all then, by all means. Get up, wipe yourself off, sprint like hell, tell the folks behind the ahole to drop back because the SOB is going down hard. Come along the outside, get a wheel in front, reach back, grab his bars and put the SOB down.
Now, are you sure the guy was being an ahole or was he just playing the racing game with you. During a real race, getting pinched in is just part of the game, nothing to get POed about, happens all the time. You need to make it clear with your bike handling and body that you can't be pushed around. In a race you hold your line, if it takes touching elbows so be it. Sounds to me like you gave ground and then got pissed off when the guy took the spot away from you. What a cry baby. You needed to hold your line. Riding with your elbows out helps make it clear you won't be pushed over. I you do get pushed over and pinched in you just back off, get around to the outside and return the treatment in kind. Normally not to the point that either person goes down but to the point that you make it clear "don't do that again or else".
I got pushed off the course more than once in my first few races. I got more comfortable with the crowd and even making elbow contact and learned to hold my line and push my weight around. Once my body language made it clear I wasn't going to be pushed around, they quit pushing. In racing you protect your position, everyone wants the same 3-4th spot and if you don't hold your line they will take it from you. You are constantly trying to force your way into the sweet spots. The good riders know how to hold you off. I find it very hard to force my way in when I race Masters, but in a Cat 5 race, piece of cake, there is always some chump that you can push around. It's called racing.
|but in Owen's case it wasn't racing.||NatC|
Nov 19, 2003 1:59 PM
|It was riding, with car traffic behind him no less. Purposely taking a rider down for the sake of some tactic that may apply during competition is irresponsible if it meant he could be killed, whether or not he violated paceline etiquette.|
|People like you give cycling a bad name||kevinacohn|
Nov 19, 2003 3:36 PM
|"Now, if you were working with the group for awhile and the group allowed you in, but one idiot felt it was his duty to intentionaly ground you for no reason at all then, by all means. Get up, wipe yourself off, sprint like hell, tell the folks behind the ahole to drop back because the SOB is going down hard. Come along the outside, get a wheel in front, reach back, grab his bars and put the SOB down."
Here's my rant for the day. My father and brother have been into cycling for far longer than I have. They tried for years to convince me to hop on and join in on the fun. But I always heard the stories that I'm having confirmed here: a--holes who think that taking another rider down is part of the game.
I've played baseball all my life, and I still do on the college level. I'm a starting pitcher. I throw hard. One of the most important parts of pitching is intimidation: establishing your part of the plate, and letting the batter know that you've not scared to come inside. Sometimes that involves hitting the batter. It's understood that it's part of the game, and everyone playing realizes this. But you NEVER are supposed to take aim at someone in a situation in which they might be seriously injured.
I don't know where you get off thinking that grabbing someone's handlebars and pulling them down is acceptable under any circumstances. It isn't. Never would a professional athlete do that in competition, and neither should you. There's nothing wrong with cycling tactics: forcing your position by bumping elbows, cutting someone off, etc., but purposfully taking someone down is pathetic and shameful.
No matter what this guy may or may not have done (and really, it's impossible to tell), he should NOT be taken down or forced off the road. It's people like you that give cycling the reputation that it has: that cyclists think they own the road, always have the right of way, and can enforce their own laws against one another. There's road ettiquite and then there's what you're describing here.
|At least I didn't recommend putting a frame pump||bimini|
Nov 20, 2003 5:50 AM
|through the front wheel.
No, I have never grabbed a bar but have seen it happen. Is it right no. But, yes, cycling, like other racing sport, is aggressive sport and intimidation is a big factor and any type of racing tends to attract aholes. If the other riders think they can push you out of the way they will. I've been pushed off the course more than once into the gravel and have come close to going down because of it. It hapened to me twice once in the same race by the same cyclist. Next race, when the guy tried the stunt again, instead of giving ground, I leaned into him pushing him to the outside and I kept pushing to make it clear it wasn't no accident. He stayed away from me after that.
As far as the behavior of pro baseball players, where have you been living and what games have you been watching. Wasn't it not too long ago that criminal charges were filed against a ball player for physical assult?
|It's ridiculous for a bunch of amateurs to act like that...||desmo|
Nov 19, 2003 3:01 PM
|I do agree you breached the ettiquite of a club ride, and it was pretty naive on your part to try and cut-in on a group (especially in L.A.!). But it is pretty outrageous that some jerk who's probably a Cat 3 or Cat 2 pack fodder at best takes a training ride seriously enough to take you out. But it happens and you should have leaned on him enough to let him know he's giving you room or hitting the deck with you. Glad I moved to Oregon 10 years ago! Reminds of a couple of Thanksgiving's ago when I brought my bike back down to visit family. I was riding that same area thinking how nice it was to be able to ride in shorts in November when I came up on the back of large club ride. They were really dogging it maybe at a cool down section and I just wanted around not to ride with them. They were spread all over the road and I got quite a bit of verbal abuse and cold stares just trying thread through them. I'm a strong Cat 3 and can ride safe in packs, but these guys were acting like I wanted to poop in their helmets, one guy made fun of me for wearing a wool jersey. Needless to say it did not break my heart, and made me feel really good that I lived in place where riders made their statements with their riding and not their attitude. Anyway, I'll be down next week and I'm bringin' a bike. Will be on the lookout for dicks on Schwinns!|
|What an annoying bunch!||NatC|
Nov 19, 2003 3:41 PM
|I can just picture the self-serious cluster fock spread out all over the road, chastizing you when all you wanted was to get past their highly important circus. Oh brother.|
|Sorry to hear about your situation...||No_sprint|
Nov 20, 2003 9:02 AM
|I wasn't on that ride and if I do take you to the curb I'll yell out my name so you know who crashed you! J/K!!!! I don't recall anyone riding a silver schwinn or who wears ComAmerica shorts. I don't recommend trying to keep up with the first group of La Grangers that are climbing the hill, they're going to be strong racers/state champ types.
There is a local/regional team around here called Comerica, they wear blue and white and yes, they are made up of almost entirely Pro/1/2/3. They've got some 4s I think. I don't know many, however, they're very strong racers. Not a large team. Mandeville gets riders from all kinds of teams.
I don't know if you'll find a *training* type ride that gets lots and lots of racers to be nice and smiley friendly and overly polite, that's just the way it is. If you're looking for a great rec ride, try the Friday ride.
|re: So how was your morning ride!? (warning extreme venting)||fracisco|
Nov 20, 2003 1:16 PM
|There could've been a lot of things happening. You might've looked like an unfamiliar, non-racer. You might have hairy legs. All are signs of a newbie. I try not to let unknown riders get infront of me either (when I was training/racing). I'm sure as hell not going to ride anyone into the curb either. Above all, you were trying to get into a LaGrange pack. I personally try to stay away from LaGrange riders and Major Motion riders. THe majority of them are recreational riders and are cluless with their bike handling. Join a racing oriented club, shave your legs and don't wear underwear under your shorts. Ride with a safer group, in the back of the pack, and migrate up when you can ride confidently in the pack and when its safe and people let you.|
|Not my post...||fracisco|
Nov 20, 2003 2:09 PM
|I sent the link to this discussion to a couple of friends that ride in the area, and I guess my profile/login info. is embedded in the link I sent and it ended up as a post with my name.
The Comerica guys are good riders, great guys to know, and I don't think the rider did what he did on purpose...sounds like he was trying to hold his wheel and you should have jumped on the back. Lesson learned.