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Hubs: Chris King or Phil Wood (or DA)?(17 posts)

Hubs: Chris King or Phil Wood (or DA)?Steve Young
Nov 17, 2003 3:25 PM
I'm toying with the idea of getting some custom wheels built up for my roadbike and am thinking of 32 hole hubs (Chris King or Phil Wood), Sapim CX ray spokes and Open Pro rims.

I'd be grateful for any comments people might have about King vs. Phil for the hub choice. I have Kings on my mountain bike and am very pleased with them – the instant engagement is worthwhile off-road. Downside would be the drag that I am still experiencing with the back hub (when not pedaling) after over 100 hours use. I'm considering the Phil's over the Kings because they are a) quieter, b) freehub less liable to "gouging" from cassette [The aluminium King free hub on my mountain bike is already looking a bit "mangled" although still perfectly functional.] However, (rightly or wrongly) weight is a consideration for me in this instance and I believe Phils would be somewhat heavier but can't find any data to compare.

Can anyone comment on:

1) Experiences with Phil Wood hubs (especially rear).
2) Relative weights.
3) Compatibility with Dura-Ace 10.

Ignoring the aspect of different cost for the moment, what are the relative functional differences between these choices (and Dura Ace) and finally, are there any other hub options I should at least consider?

TIA,

Steve
I am not riding with you if you get Chris Kingcyclopathic
Nov 17, 2003 3:36 PM
just can't stand the racket 8-P

CP

PS. if weight is concern, check Tune or American Classic, they have some really light stuff.
Campy seems pretty loud lately, toogtx
Nov 17, 2003 3:55 PM
If you're running Shimano seems like DA hubs should be a no brainer. I run a King on the front of my mtb, but XTR rear--no way do I want that racket. Phils would be cool if you do loaded touring or ride in the rain constantly or have a single speed or fixie, but they're boat anchors. Oh, and DA hubs come with skewers!
Phil rear is 511g... Get KingsPmbH
Nov 17, 2003 4:12 PM
King and Campy hubs are both loud. I'd go with King or DA for the weight savings. I wouldn't worry too much about the drag or sound, since one doesn't coast much when road riding (compared to MTB'ing).
m2¢.......DA (they're as quiet as a mouse...) nmcoonass
Nov 17, 2003 4:57 PM
If you don't freewheel noise is never an issue.Juanmoretime
Nov 17, 2003 5:32 PM
You should be pedaling!
re: Hubs: Chris King or Phil Wood (or DA)?russw19
Nov 17, 2003 8:02 PM
No comments on the spokes, good choice there! I like King hubs, but I really like Phil hubs.

Also, check out the new DT RR 1.1 rim. It's lighter than the Open Pro and everything said about them so far is positive. If their mountain rim is any indication, they will have the new road rim to beat for the next few years.

Russ
agree on the rim.....K-Man
Nov 18, 2003 9:58 AM
I just went thru the same issues and am having a wheelset built up using King hubs (28 hole), Sapim CX-Ray spokes and the new DT R1.1 rim (not due to be available until December). The DT rims are supposed to be excellent quality with a very good weight around 415 grams.

KMan
Chris KingAl1943
Nov 17, 2003 8:22 PM
I built some with black King hubs, black OP rims, 32 Revolution spokes laced 3X, black alloy nipples. Didn't like the ratchet noise at first but after 1000 miles or so it seems to have gotten quieter. My friends Record 10 hub is definitely much louder.
I'm sure D-A works just as well and are much quieter. I like the way the King hubs look on my bike.
re: Hubs: Chris King or Phil Wood (or DA)?laffeaux
Nov 17, 2003 10:11 PM
I own Kings and DA hubs for CX bikes. They both work great, and I could not tell you which is which while pedaling. The Kings are loud when freewheeling, which is annoying at times - i.e. when you try to coast to listen for a noise that your bike is making. However they are lighter than the DA hubs. You can't go wrong with either.
No KingsDoc Hollywood
Nov 18, 2003 6:23 AM
I have a set of the Kings, and while they are nice, you need to religiously maintain them, much more than a DA hub, and they are more difficult to adjust than a DA hub. There is a very fine line between too tight and not tight enough with the adjusting cups.

If they (King) develop any side to side play (especially in the rear), they wear exceeding quick in my opinion and you can't fix without buying a new internal part according to King. I maybe have 1000 miles on mine, and they are on the verge of needing to be serviced again and a replacement part needed.

Most of the wearing surfaces in the Kings are Al or Brass; which are soft, wear more easily and gouge.

Do yourself a favor, buy the DA's (At least for the rear) and save yourself some money. The new DA10 is getting close to the weight of the Kings anyway.

King headsets are the bomb though. Nothing better IMO.

Doc
No KingsCrankist
Nov 18, 2003 6:39 AM
What do you mean by "wearing surfaces"?
Except for pawls, bearings, and freehubs, I can't think of any hubs which aren't otherwise alum.
KingsChen2
Nov 18, 2003 7:03 AM
My King hubs have over 5000 miles with no adjustments needed and no noticeable wear.
Phil is overkillKeeping up with Junior
Nov 18, 2003 7:31 AM
As noted, Phil Woods are pretty heavy. I have PWs on our tandem and specced them because of the extra weight of the tandem and I wanted something a bit more bombproof since I dont have lots of extra tandem duty wheels sitting around. They are great hubs but I question if you really need them for a road wheel on a single bike.
Phil is overkillwily in pacifica
Nov 18, 2003 10:19 AM
Speaking of tandems, we have White Industries on ours and they are probably lighter than the Phils but very durable. They are very sweet looking and probalay slightly less expensive then either Phils or Kings.

Willy in Pacifica
Thanks for all the great opinions/advice ...Steve Young
Nov 18, 2003 9:04 AM
I still haven't made a decision - I'm going to take this week to think about it a bit more and look at the alternatives in the LBS :) where I can touch them !

The responses were all really helpful though - new things to think about. Thanks.

Steve
Thanks for all the great opinions/advice ...boneman
Nov 18, 2003 2:00 PM
Phil weights per their website are front 187, rear 348 and only available for Shimano cassettes 8/9. Campy is not offered. Explanation is that the depth of the Campy cassette splines is such that they would have to use a thinner rear axle, reducing reliability. Personally, I think it's not an issue but they've got a lot more experience.

I've used Phil hubs since 1974. Pre-FSA in those days and freewheel. The company stands behind their product, even today, and their customer service is nothing but excellent. I've also used Phil BB's since the mid-80's, again with nothing but good results. I still use my hubs from 1974 which have had the bearings replaced once during that time and probably have over 60k miles mainly in Boston where I rode them year round on my commuter sled. Axles and flanges are meant for reliability and ease of build.

I also have a pair of their cassette hubs, FSA, and they too are bullet proof and again, I'm now in England which is not exactly a dry climate. The rear hub is not the lightest so that needs to be kept in mind. Also in the intervening years makers like Hugi, King, Tune , etc. have come on the scene.

Phil products are extremely functional, reliable and low maintenance. I've not used the King hubs but based upon their headsets which I have used, are probably a well engineered and built product.

If it's the lightest weight, the King's are probably the way to go. I do however give an unequivocal recommendation for the Phil hubs.