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Custom vs. "off the rack" Ti bikes(13 posts)

Custom vs. "off the rack" Ti bikesmightya
Nov 11, 2003 11:35 AM
Looking at purchasing either a Seven (alaris) or Moots (vamoots) frame. Both are excellent bikes, can be spec'ed out similarly. Has anyone gone through the same decision process? At this level are there substantial differences in ride quality or discernable characteristics? Or is this more related to my own issues about wanting the coolest bike brand?
fit and intended useColnagoFE
Nov 11, 2003 11:55 AM
If the Moots works then go for it. If you have fit issues or want a different geometry then get a custom. I'm guessing if you had a 7 and a Moots without decals side by side you'd be hard pressed to tell any difference. If you want the coolest (read most expensive) bike then click on that Dogma Ego link. ;)
I could tell the difference...hackmechanic
Nov 11, 2003 4:56 PM
Moots is a much more refined bike. Better engineered, pushed that little bit further. Seven is a fashion bike rife with trivial additions like arbitrary carbon inserts with no benefit to final weight, cost, or ride quality. Moots will also do full custom, if you need it, at an extra charge. Better company to deal with as well as they are a smaller company that gives off the vibe that they care more about making a good bike than making a lot of expensive bikes. Seven, though "custom" is assembly line production. If you don't believe me ask them if they can make a bike for you with straight chainstays. They won't do it because they can't. Doesn't sound so "custom" to me.

Also consider Independent Fabrications, full custom ti and should be ever so slightly cheaper than a Seven of the same quality, and they'll paint the frame for you at no extra charge.
me, toogtx
Nov 11, 2003 5:39 PM
the finish and dropouts on the Moots make 'em easy to spot. great bikes.
maybe cosmetic differences...ColnagoFE
Nov 12, 2003 9:04 AM
sure you know what to look for you can spot the difference. I was talking more about ride. I don't think you'd notice.
From someone who owns both a seven and a moots...PT
Nov 11, 2003 3:21 PM
I have a Moots YBB mtb, a Seven cyclocross bike, and I passed my Merlin road bike on to my wife. While all are excellent frames, the Seven is by far the better bike. I'm pretty much a "perfect" fit for a standard 57 cm (c-to-c measurement) frame, but tuning the ride to an individual is worth a lot, and it's something a good frame builder should be able to do.

Despite what my wife thinks, I don't intend to get a new frame for a long time. However, I am living vicariously through my riding partner who is having Black Sheep build him a custom Ti cyclocross frame -- for about $600 less than a seven or moots would cost. I've seen this builder's bikes (gorgeous) and through living the experience with my friend, I will never again pay more for an off the shelf frame (Moots -- although they're apparently introducing custom options) than a custom frame (Black Sheep, Anvil, Vanilla, etc). There are plenty of good custom builders out there who can build with titanium or steel for less than the big name Ti builders...
Serottatwospoke
Nov 11, 2003 3:50 PM
A buddy of mine was looking at all of the high end brands, he ended up getting a custom Ti Serotta, as he had some every specific geometry issues.
He told me that their custom was about the same price as a Seven stock frame.
We did a 60 mile on ride on Sunday, the bike looks really sweet, and he loves the way it rides.
There are no.............Mike Tea
Nov 11, 2003 4:26 PM
....stock Seven frames. They are ALL custom. Oh sure they will do you a "Signature Size" with their standard geometry but everything else about that frame will be your decision.

They say -

"Suppose you weren't even considering a custom bike, but you'd like all the quality and benefits of a beautifully handcrafted Seven. Then consider our Signature Size™ frames. Choosing any Seven model in one of literally dozens of these expertly designed sizes is as fast and easy as ordering any stock frame. But you get so much more. You can order a Signature Size™ as is, or with just 10 simple steps, you can select an array or custom options, including rider-specific tubing, top tube length, cable routing, rack and fender mounts, and your choice of decal colors."

All the same price too.
What Fork on Your Seven Cx?peter in NVA
Nov 11, 2003 4:44 PM
I'm seriously thinking of getting a Seven Ti Cx and wonder what handling characteristics you put in their fitting questionaire. I'm going to ask for road bike handling with clearances for 35c tires. Even though UCI banned them, I will get disk brakes with a Vicious Cycles front fork (looks heavy).
Seven or Serottalyleseven
Nov 11, 2003 7:05 PM
I rode a lot of bikes before settling on a Ti Seven and the fitting process and feedback from the factory was terrific. They customize any aspect of the build you want or need. I was so impressed that I bought a steel Seven later. No doubt in my mind that the custom process has benefits compared to off the rack. Serotta does much the same and is also a good bike. Don't know about Moots, but not sure they go as far in the custom build process.
An Independent Fabrication Steel CX fork...PT
Nov 11, 2003 7:22 PM
The head tube angle on the Seven CX is 72 and the rake on the IF fork is 50mm. This bike is quick (like a road bike) and rolls over stuff exceeding well (better than my Moots YBB).
Seven fitting questionaireinnergel
Nov 12, 2003 6:37 AM
Go to the Seven website and request a catalog and a fit kit brochure. You'll get the entire package that is used during a fitting and can see the whole questionaire. They can have it to you in a week or so.
I buy all my ties off the rack... 8^D nmBowWow
Nov 11, 2003 6:26 PM