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Spooks gone - Fires almost gone - Time a Road Bike - which?(12 posts)

Spooks gone - Fires almost gone - Time a Road Bike - which?saldog
Nov 1, 2003 3:46 AM
Still real smokey here in Huntington beach! So I am not riding till it clears up. I have been riding a Moto FLY Team and have converted it to road by just changing tires. I know it is not really the 'thing' - but with the 1.25 tires I put on it; it weighes 19lbs and I keep up with the road guys I ride with no problem.
Anyway, I am tired of being the only one on a mountain bike; so I started shopping for a road bike - I like the Kenisum frame on the FLY so I went back to the dealer I got that from in Fountain Valley. He showed me another Motobecane with a Kenesium frame and it looked good; but the store is Right Next Door to Supergo; so I went in there to compare. Supergo guy showed me a Felt and said the frame was made by Kenesis but used Felt's special custom drawn 7005 aluminum. And that was a good reason to buy the Felt.
Well right around the corner there is PERFORMANCE bike shop; so I go in there and ask for the same thing - takes forever to get waited on! Anyway, the guy shows me a Fuji and says it uses "exclusive Fuji X-fusion tubing" and that Performance owns Supergo and gets to sell the better bikes! I start asking the guy more on the tubing and he has another guy come out; an expert I guess and this guy says; X-Fusion is the 6000 series from 'A-Pro' frame maker and it is the same as Kenesium which is 6000 series from Kinesis frame maker - and that both are better than 7000 series used by Felt - but that they are all really good and that no one can tell which series aluminum they are riding anyway. And I should buy the Fuji because it is a great price!
Does anyone know what the deal is on these tubes; and does it matter? Also I would not mind buying a great deal online; but all these big dealers are really cheap I think anyway. Around $1100 for bikes with Ultegra.
Thanks for any opinions; which I guess that is what I can ask for; as I am getting the idea there are no facts in bikes as in most of life.
Might I suggest actually riding these bikes!TNRyder
Nov 1, 2003 4:59 AM
As the component level is going to be similar from one bike to the next that is not going to be your deciding factor. Get yourself properly fitted for the bike and then actually test ride them. Keep them out as long as you think the shop will let you. If the sales guy follows you out the door and stands there watching you as you pedal around ask if you could take it 'around the block a few times'. Then pick the bike that rides the best.

Don't let the sales bozo be lazy either. Make sure that they put proper air in the tires and adjust saddle height before you go out for your test ride. At the pressures road tires run, they bleed pressure pretty quickly. A crappy frame can APPEAR to ride more smoothely because the tires are under-inflated. Problem is, if you were to actually ride the thing at the lower pressure youd be changing flats daily! I came across this revelation while test riding a low end Fuji (not the Team from an earlier post). Two different test rides, two different bikes!
Great Suggestion - I hope it makes things clearsaldog
Nov 1, 2003 6:49 AM
This is a great idea on the test rides; although I am unsure if I can get a long enough ride to tell the difference (assuming there is a difference). It's saturday, so I have plenty of time to do that and will. Plus thanks for tip on the tires -- I bet that really will make a difference and I would not have thought about it.
I ordered the Motobecane FLY Team based on two magazine reports I read on it; one calling it the XC Bike Of The Year. That and the fact that it was a mountain bike under 20lbs was enough for me. Never got a test ride; as the dealer was sold out and I had to order and wait 6 weeks to get it. But it worked out great
On the road bikes; I would still like to know if there is any difference in this 6000 series and 7000 series stuff. I tried to read about who liked what tubing; but all the raves I found were on Reynolds 853 - which I take it is really steel - I assume heavier than Aluminum and I like light weight. Fuji salesman said thier frame is 2.7lbs; Motobecane guy said theirs is 2.7lbs; and guy at Supergo said the Felt frame was ultra light but had no weight quote.

anyway, I'll see how they ride today
Still no answer on 6000 vs 7000 series tubing - does it mattersaldog
Nov 2, 2003 3:59 PM
OK, yesterday and today I went to five of the largest bikes shops in southern California. And I rode six road bikes from $1000 to $1600 with Aluminum frames. Felt, Specialized, Trek, Motobecane, Fuji and Scannante.
I ask every salesman - "what's the difference between 6000 and 7000 series aluminum?"
No luck on this question I feel; it is just kinda funny.
Fuji guys says "all the frames you are trying are made in Taiwan and use the same basic geometry -- so the will all ride the same" { this seemed close as they all did ride the same }
But the Felt guy said "7000 is better; that is why it is a higher number"
Motobecane and Trek guy (in same shop); said "most high end bikes use 6000 series"
A shop was Specialized was very honest - guy said "I have no clue"
Am I just silly to expect an answer on this? why do they put the stickers on if no one knows what it means?
I think 7000 is a bit lighter...AJS
Nov 2, 2003 7:36 PM
...and possibly stiffer, but don't hold me to it.(?)
Weight of Bike and Tubing Typesaldog
Nov 3, 2003 3:19 AM
Of the six bikes I tested -- the Fuji and the Motobecane were both 17 lbs according to the store guys. The Trek, Felt, Scannante were 18 lbs as quoted by stores - And the always helpful Specialized dealer said " I don't know and we dont have a scale"
Funny thing is both the Fuji and Motobecane were 6000 series aluminum according to the stores -- And the other funny thing is that all the bikes rode the same for me -- but the Fuji, Motobecane, and Scannante were way less money for equal or better equipment. At least I established that Full Ultegra bikes are about $1000 to $1200; if you get a good deal.
it depends but with some 7000...divve
Nov 3, 2003 12:54 AM
...alloys a manufacturer may weld a frame together without having to heat treat it afterward, thus saving considerable production cost. It's not something I particularly like but will render acceptable results.

The number itself has nothing to do whether one alloy is better compared to the other.
Still no answer on 6000 vs 7000 series tubing - does it matterpecangap
Nov 3, 2003 5:13 AM
I have one Motobecane that says 7005 on it and a Fuji which says "X-Fusion" -- I heard X-fusion is 6000 aluminum. I did buy both these bikes on ebay and was very happy with the price. {plus they were new with a warranty -- I love Ebay!} Anyway, I think they both ride great -- maybe the 7000 vs 6000 on aluminum does not matter.
Ask Easton - they should know. Link inside...BowWow
Nov 3, 2003 8:46 AM
http://www.eastonbike.com/downloadable_files/r&d_files/R&D-01%20Al%20Alloys.pdf
THANK YOU - this is the first good info I have heardsaldog
Nov 3, 2003 10:09 AM
Thanks for sending the Easton link. That makes me feel better - and feel like I know a little more - certainly enough to buy a bike. LOL!
After sending a lot of time on this (more than I should have) - I concluded the following
1 -- people who really real strongly about their bike frame fall into two groups
A) people who way over paid and want to think they did the right thing
B) anyone with a frame made of Reynolds tubing - the posts and comments about Reynolds are just over the top - especially 853
2 -- of the six bikes I tried they all road the same
and the Fuji, Motobecane, and Scannente were the best deals by far on equipment and weight.
3 -- I hate the look and sound of the Scannente
4 -- I already have a Motobecane FLY that is blue and getting another Blue Motobecane would be just too much
5 -- I am going to buy the Fuji Team -- light, great parts, low price AND I was impressed that the guy at Performance flat told me that all the frames were the same and which factories in Taiwan made them
thanks for the responses (especially the Easton link)
THANK YOU - this is the first good info I have heardMShaw
Nov 3, 2003 10:54 AM
I would tend to agree with most of point #1. People buy emotionally and justify logically. Having owned both AL and 853 bikes, I can say that there is something special about 853. The ride depends on so many other things that the blanket statement that 853 rides great may get you a bike that just doesn't fit at all.

All of the bikes that you're talking about are welded in one of about 5 factories in Taiwan. The only real differences are quality of the tubing, geometry, and components. Kinda like Ford and Mazda trucks coming off the same assembly lines...

If the Fuji's the one that fits buy it. If it isn't, keep looking.

Mike
#3. It's Scattante. Do you like the sound of that better? nmBrooks
Nov 3, 2003 4:31 PM