|Chorus or Dura Ace||Nakamura|
Oct 27, 2003 4:06 AM
|Is there anyone out there who can explain the differenses between Chorus and Dura Ace?
Do they work well or is there something wich is better with any of them?
I have had Ultegra on my old bike but now I´m gonna bulid a new one and can´t decide wich group I´m gonna choose.
It seems to be a little bit more ergo with Ergopower instead of STI with ergo handlebars, is that true?
|re: DA is good so is Campy, but more options with campy||hudsonite|
Oct 27, 2003 4:46 AM
|They are both good, it depends on what you are going to do with your bike.
DA 2004 is a great grouppo for racing. Shimano has always made great products and this is probably their best yet. Some people will like this product better than Campy because it is made by Shimano. As Shimano is the market leader in terms of distribution, you will be able to find more dealers that know how to fix and maintain the grouppo.
Campagnolo on the other hand is also a great company. The Chorus group set for 2004 is very close to the Record group set of 2003. The basic product has been on the market for a few years and has matured and evolved to a full product offering. Early problems have been fixed and the product line is very complete with respect to different gearing options. Bike mechanics have experience with the drive train and there is wide spread distribution of parts, both on-line and through select LBS.
The DA10 is new and as a new product, we can expect to see some minor issues that will be fixed over time. Shimano does not make too many mistakes with new producs, but it is likely that it will take some time before the dealer network fully understands the new BB/crank and maintenance issues of the Grouppo.
I think the biggest difference between the two for 2004 is the breadth of product offering of each group. The Chorus offers three different rear derailleurs and three different cranksets (Double - Carbon, Alloy, Triple-Alloy). This give the options of setting up a tightly spaced racing double or a mountain climbing triple with 13-29 cogset, with a couple of option in between.
The DA10 on the other hand has one crankset and one rear derailleur. The lowest gear being 39x27. If you are going to be racing or live in the flatlands, this is a non issue. But if you live in Rockies or just enjoy big hills, this may not be enough for you.
So if I was setting up a bike for racing, either would work. If I was setting up a bike for long distance, hill climbing or had bad knees i think I would go with Chorus or the Ultegra triple.
If you are used to Shimano STI, the DA10 is probably going to work for you more than the Campy ergo, at least for the first week. But we adapt pretty quickly and most people would find both ok after some time.
I just went through the same decision making process myself. I used shimano for a very long time, but I am buying the 2004 Chorus because I need and want a wider selection of gears for climbing mountains. If Shimano had offered this, I would have gone Shimano because I have the tools and experience with this brand.
|Different ergonomics also . . .||Look381i|
Oct 27, 2003 5:47 AM
|Good points all, especially with regard to gearing choices.
The maint point of contact with both groups is, of course, the "brifters." Perhaps Shimano has changed theirs recently, but they seem to be harder, longer and wider, which makes them less comfortable for some (and I assume more for others). Also, some prefer Campy thumb shifting and rear cog multi-shifts.
Try them both for comfort and shifting preference.
Oct 27, 2003 7:00 AM
|I have no experience with Campy anything but wanted to put in a plug for Shimano's pipe spindle bottom bracket design (as used on the 9 speed groups). This design is superior to a square spindle in my opinion since it's both stiffer and more durable - no more spread cranks on the square taper.
Other than this one distinction, I think it's a coin flip regarding which is better.
Oct 27, 2003 7:35 AM
|We haven't had a good shimano vs. campy brawl in a while, so I'll weigh in. I've got Chorus 10 on one bike and Ultegra on another. Both are excellent groups and I wouldn't hesitate to use either one. Here are few factors to consider: |
-- Maintenance costs are significantly higher with Campy. Although some people claim Campy is more durable, you will spend much more on parts that tend to wear out -- eg., chains, cassettes.
-- Ergonomics are important, and try to ride bikes with a Campy group before going that route. I initially preferred the fit of Campy's shifters better, the Shimano fits fine now that I've got it dialed in.
-- The new DuraAce group is very expensive, right up there with Campy Record. However, Campy is trying its best to keep up with Shimano pricewise. Chorus is being "improved" with more carbon parts like Record, and sure to increase in price as well. If I was in the market for DuraAce or Chorus, I would try to buy last year's model before the prices increase (if it's not too late already.)
-- The extra gear with the 10 speed vs. 9 is no big deal (in my view) unless you opt for the 13-29 cassette, which gives you most of the climbing gearing of a triple without the hassle.
-- The 10-speed chain is the "weak link" in Campy Record and Chorus groups. It is more finicky than 9 speed chains, more expensive and wears out quicker. Only time will tell if the 10-speed DuraAce has similar problems.
Oct 27, 2003 8:36 AM
|Nothing like a good Campy/Shimano fight! I disagree about Campy wearing out faster. And to avoid the chain/cassette wear issue, just get the Chorus 10 speed steel cassette and the Wipperman chain. Absolutely no problems with that combination. Good idea to get last year's record because its this year's Chorus in large part. I have Chorus and Record and when they re dialed in they stay in and hard to tell the difference. I even use Centaur on a touring bike and it has been faultless also. Haven't used Shimano in a couple of years, but had some minor tuning problems with Ultegra. I should say, more frequent tuning to keep it smooth.|
|Aside from ergonomics there's....||divve|
Oct 27, 2003 8:54 AM
|.....one thing I really like about Campy - quick and direct rear shifting. It's actually smoother down the cassette under tension and high speeds. Shimano tends to lag/hang then slam down in those instances.|
Oct 27, 2003 9:11 AM
|Yes, my Chorus does shift noticably quicker than my Ultegra, especially down the cassette. It may just be due to the peculiarities of each set-up, but I don't think so. Anyway I don't imagine it would affect my performance one way or another.|
|re: Chorus or Dura Ace||mapei boy|
Oct 27, 2003 12:29 PM
|I now have 5000+ miles on my Campy Chorus 10 speed 13-29.
The chain problems I experienced in the past (2 chains in the first 1500 miles) are a thing of the past. I have 3500 miles on the current chain without a single problem.
My shifters have broken in, and they now have a lovely soft, tactile feel. They are extremely reliable, too. Maybe one shift every three or four rides crunches or jars. They get adjusted once a year. The various Shimanos I've tried (admittedly on new, unbroken-in bikes) feel slow and detached by comparison. I don't know if this analogy will mean anything to a person who didn't grow up in the Sixties and Seventies, but the difference in feel between the Campy and Shimano systems is like the difference between a Gottlieb and Bally pinball machine. The Gottlieb is the Campy - you feel a direct mechanical connection to the machinery, to the point where it could almost seem rickety. The Shimano is the Bally - very hydraulic...but also very sturdy and robust.
My freewheel, meantime, has finally quieted down. Through the first 4000 miles it was a noisy, clicky mother...though certainly not as noisy as a Chris King. Now it's still not quite Shimano silent, but it's no longer intrusive either.
The hubs spun a little thickly at first, but now they spin soft and true. The same goes for the crank. I doubt if they'll ever achieve the miraculous, weightless feeling of my Early 70's Nuovo Record axled componentry, but they are slowly getting better and better.
My two yen...or lira.
Oct 27, 2003 1:57 PM
|I've owned ultegra & I'm now running record 10. I roasted the drivetrain inside of a year but I (foolishly I know) ride it in the dirt and mud. While I clean the drivetrain quite frequently I went through 3 chains plus the cogs, granny gear & middle ring. Yes this is a cross setup.
The thing I like about the shifting is that the front derailleur has more intermediate clicks. With Shimano, you get one click per ring plus a half click for the middle ring.
The 10 speed requires precise dialing but once set up, little extra effort is needed. & this is with a dirty drivetrain.
The reason I went with Campy was first because of curiousity and second because all the parts are replaceable. If a shifter dies with shimano, throw it away. Not so with the campy goods.
|re: Chorus or Dura Ace||Nakamura|
Oct 27, 2003 11:45 PM
I think it will chorus on my new bike.
One thing that has'nt been mentioned is that Shimano has more cables between the levers. Campy seems to be moore cleen i the cockpit. The only thing I can see that is negative is that Campy has to be broken in, but on the other hand it perhaps gonna be profitable for many miles.