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Since it's wheel week...(14 posts)

Since it's wheel week...gf99
Oct 23, 2003 9:13 AM
I might as well ask since I have not tried many different wheels.

Looking at handbuilt 32 hole/DA/Open Pro, DT-comp 14/15 3x all around. Large mileage, 180lb rider, no or occasional "just for fun" racing. Rolling terrain, average roads.

Is there any reason other than a few saved grams why I might want to get more complicated (i.e. Revos or 1x/2x on the non-drive side or front)? Should I consider straight guage spokes?
re: Since it's wheel week...bostonkiwi
Oct 23, 2003 9:49 AM
as noted in Bimini's reply below:

bimini "another spoke/wheel question" 10/23/03 9:19am

Doing 3x drive 1x non drive will help balance out the spoke/wheel tension.
That would be a beautiful set of wheels,....TFerguson
Oct 23, 2003 10:01 AM
just not as sexy as a set of Ks, etc.

Stick with 3x.

DB spokes are stronger, not weaker, than straight gauged. They "stretch" more in the middle, which put less strain on the elbow where they normally break.

A good pothole will trash an OP, so you could go with something stronger there like CX33 or Velocity Deep-V though I'm not sure they would fair any better from a pothole attack. Or just be more careful than me.

Reasonable care of the DA hubs and they will outlast you.

Some middle ground for bigger guys...Chicago_Steve
Oct 23, 2003 10:19 AM
Maybe check out the Velocity Fusion rim. More of a V profile then an OP but less then a Deep V. Weight is around the 470-480 gram range so their not that much heavier then OP but have additional strength...

I go 190 lbs and am riding Velocity Fusions on and offroad (CX bike). I used 14/17 Wheelsmith spokes all around except for the drive side rear (14/15). Laced 3x and so far so good after a 1000 miles of commuting and trail riding....

You can see the different butting profiles of the spokes in this picture...
Oct 23, 2003 10:36 AM
I'm curious about the different looking spoke in the foreground that appears to be bigger with a lot of threads. Wha's that?
Oct 23, 2003 11:23 AM
On this build I used Wheelsmith spokes. The big spoke you see is a Wheelsmith DB14. The thinner looking spoke in the background is a Wheelsmith XL14. The thick section that you see is actually the butting of the spoke. Butting refers to making the product (spokes, tubing) thicker on the end. The wheelsmith butting is a little more extreme then DT Swiss thus you get a slightly lighter spoke for the same size vs. the competition...

DB14 2.0mm-1.7mm-2.0mm
XL14 2.0mm-1.5mm-2.0mm

Of course if I had the $$$ I would have used Sapim CX-Rays which are extremely cool bladed spokes...
The only rim I've trashed was from...TFerguson
Oct 23, 2003 3:45 PM
hitting the far side of a 8-10" pothole. It bent both sides of the rim in an S-shape so that no amount of bending can get the brake surface straight enough to use. Would the Fusion (or Deep-V/CX33) have helped in this situation? Are they any stronger at the sides where the aero portion does not come into play?

Probably not...Chicago_Steve
Oct 24, 2003 6:17 AM
I suspect that the braking surface on most rims are fairly similar (that's where your concerned right?). They have to be thick enough to withstand the heat and force of brake pads, as well as the pressure exerted by the 100 - 140 PSI of air pressure.

Protecting you rim from impact in your situation probably has a lot more to do with the tire pressure then anything else. The effect of tire pressure to cushion the impact is fairly obvious. The width of the rim, rim stiffness, and type of spoke all play a small part in absorbing the impact as well. As does the shape of the lip of the pothole.

There are several advantages of V style rims for building a stiff wheel. Since the V shape is larger then a standard box section rim there is simply more material which stiffens the rim. The ERD (Diameter) of the rim is smaller with a V style rim which leads to shorter spokes. Shorter spokes flex less then longer spokes.

The guys at Torelli have some interesting thoughts about rims in this diatribe...

One final note... This is a good topic for the Wheelbuilding forum over on MTBr. The subject comes up quite a bit with MTB wheels, which by nature take lots of severe impacts then road wheels.
Good choicebimini
Oct 23, 2003 10:07 AM
The build you state is a good choice. You may want to look at a lighter gauge spoke and/or a 1 cross pattern on the non-drive side of the rear.

I am 180# and have 32 hole OPs 3x 14/15 on the rear and have a problem now and then with the non-drive side spokes backing off due to the low tension on the non drive side. Going with a lighter gauge and or a higher tension pattern on the non drive side would help that situation.

I have tightened up all may spokes to help the situation but i am concerned about the drive side getting too tight.
Same concern hereChen2
Oct 23, 2003 10:41 AM
I've got Open Pros, King hubs, 32 Revolution spokes 3X all around and I've broken two spokes at the "J" bend on the non-drive side. Wheels were built with a tensiometer and tension has been increased twice on the rear wheel.
Sounds like your non-drive side spokes...........Len J
Oct 24, 2003 7:07 AM
are the wrong length, if you are having this kind of problem.

More info on spoke length.................Len J
Oct 24, 2003 7:31 AM
From Jobst Brandt (The Bicycle Wheel):

"A spoke length correction can be made fro offset rear wheels so that spokes from both hub flanges will be flush with the top of the nipple. Spokes for the left side should be one millimeter longer, and for the right, one millimeter shorter that the value calculated. The length correction is only approximate, but for conventional multi-speed wheels it is reasonable accurate."

This is consistant with most spoke calculation models. (See SpoCalc on Damon Richards site).

Some wheelbuilders take a shortcut and use the same length spoke on both sides, because there is a 2 milimeter difference (if you use the above rules) this can result in the problem you describe.

re: Since it's wheel week...divve
Oct 23, 2003 12:30 PM
I've got some custom wheels consisting of Record hubs, CX Ray spokes, alloy Polyax nipples, 28H OP rims. The 3x lacing pattern on my set initially came across as rather strange (to me), but the guy who built my wheels has a good reputation in Europe. He recommended against all kinds of alternative patterns. Something must be good about these, they have stayed true for the past 1000km and I mean super true.
Which builder? (nm)boneman
Oct 25, 2003 9:55 AM