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amatures, PBP and drugs, drugs and even more drugs(24 posts)

amatures, PBP and drugs, drugs and even more drugscyclopathic
Oct 21, 2003 10:04 AM
If you haven't seen last issue of Outside mag yet. Apparently there was a guy on PBP who had taken HGH, EPO and steroids as the way to prepare for and he wrote an article describing his experience.

Sadly, this is the way most of Outside Mag readers will ever know about Paris-Brest-Paris.

Here's an interview on NPR.
http://www.npr.org/dmg/dmg.php?prgCode=ATC&showDate=17-Oct-2003&segNum=8&NPRMediaPref=WM

CP

PS. and btw he is republican consultant /this one is for Doug and Ed/
Intersting articlecmgauch
Oct 21, 2003 10:32 AM
2 things struck me:

1) I never considered how expensive a doping regimen could be.

and

2) He went through all that to ride PBP as a stoker on a tandem?!?!?!?!
$7500 is peanutsColnagoFE
Oct 21, 2003 10:55 AM
If it could help me win a major cycling event then $7500 is cheap. You gotta wonder if someday this HGH and testosterone=replacement stuff will be commonplace or maybe they will doscover nasty side effects years later?
re: $7500 is peanutscyclopathic
Oct 21, 2003 11:03 AM
he probably made more money on publication and interviews.

Now, here is my ethical dilemma: how him taking illegal drugs to write report to make money on is any different from pros taking drugs to win to make money?
simple answer to ethical dilemma: he wasn't cheating . . .Geardaddy
Oct 21, 2003 11:17 AM
There's no rule about taking performance enhancing drugs and writing (and I'm not concerned with rampant abuse amongst the writing community). There are some definite rules concerning competitive sports though.

In the conclusion of his article he pointed out two reasons why he was against doping in the end: 1) It was personally beginning to "creep him out", and 2) he believed it turned competitive sports into a dangerous freak show (ala 17 Dutch cyclists dropping dead in one year). I couldn't agree more with his conclusions.
what he had done is illegalcyclopathic
Oct 21, 2003 12:05 PM
quote: "Usage of performance enhancing drugs during sports events in France is persecuted by the French sports ministry. It doesn't matter if the organisers control or not. In the PBP-regulations it's even written that a phrase in the line of 'the ACP offers the ministry of youth and sports the opportunity to conduct doping tests'. Now he admitted himself that he used doping, he is liable to criminal persecution in France."

Second, not getting into discussion on "is all illegal also unethical", how about people who ran out of time and did not finish? after all the goal of PBP is to finish.
they weren't really illegal in his caseColnagoFE
Oct 21, 2003 12:33 PM
He got legitimate scripts from his Dr....plus he wasn't involved in any pro-level sporting events that he could have profited from. No law against taking drugs for a news story that I know of.
check post abovecyclopathic
Oct 21, 2003 12:55 PM
even amateur events in France are regulated. In case of legitimate prescriptions from doctor he is still required to disclose them and clear which I don't think he did.

Now, if he had been riding a local club century..
Maybe not illegal, but certainly unethicalDale Brigham
Oct 21, 2003 1:27 PM
Every PBP entrant agreed to the event regulations with his/her signature on the entry form. Included in those rules is the following regulation (see below in French and English), which, as cyclopathic summarized above, states that the event is under the auspices of the French Ministry for Youth and Sports, which has the option of setting up doping controls for PBP. Just because they did not happen to do so does not make doping permissable in the event.

Heck, I've raced in the U.S. since '72, and I've never had to pee into a cup (which also shows that I've never won a national championship or any other big event). Just 'cuz you don't get tested, don't make it right.

Dale

Article TREIZE: contrôle médical. Il peut être organisé à la demande du Ministère de la Jeunesse et des Sports qui en supportera les frais. Le fait de ne pas accepter de se présenter à ce contrôle, ou d'être reconnu POSITIF, entraînera la NON HOMOLOGATION du BREVET.

Article THIRTEEN: medical control. It can be organized at the request of the Ministry for Youth and the Sports which will support the expenses of them. The fact of not agreeing to be present at this control, or to be recognized POSITIVE, will involve NON-HOMOLOGATION (disqualification) of the BREVET.
didn't realize thatColnagoFE
Oct 21, 2003 1:35 PM
I thought it was more like an organized century over here--you pay and you ride--albeit a much longer ride!
Full Disclosure: My Drug Use During PBPDale Brigham
Oct 21, 2003 11:14 AM
1 Calvados (apple brandy), downed in bar between Villaine la Juhel and Mortagne au Perche on third night.

16 beers, mostly Kronenberg 1664, but a few Heines, too, ingested at each controle (two at Brest and Nogent Le Roi controles).

approx. 40 doses Ibuprofen (Motrin) and 20 doses Naproxen Sodium (Aleve), swallowed at each controle, with a beer chaser.

Approx. total cost: $50 USD
(BTW, beers were cheaper at the controles than anyplace else I saw them in France, about 2 Euros each, I recall.)

Yeah, what's with spending thousands of bucks on ergogenic drugs, riding on the back of a friggin' tandem with a PBP tough guy up front, and then finishing a mere 6 hours ahead of me and my crew? (And, we did PBP the total wussy way!) I can think of lots of better ways to spend the money.

Dale
Dale, you're da man!cyclopathic
Oct 21, 2003 12:10 PM
I was dreaming of beer got one but couldn't drink.
Beer -- Thought of same attracted me to next controleDale Brigham
Oct 21, 2003 12:28 PM
Like a carrot in front of a donkey (mule, my wife would say), I'd think of that beer waiting for me at the next controle and pedal faster. Worked fine.

Dale
Ooooh. You're an ulcer waiting to happenKristin
Oct 21, 2003 1:37 PM
20 Naproxen Sodium? I took 10 in 3 days and it did me in. Acute Gastritis. I was out of it for a week and can never take the stuff again. I'm liking Viox.
Iron gut essential for randosDale Brigham
Oct 21, 2003 3:10 PM
May have overstated Aleve use. Hard to recall exact number. Just remember swallowing two reds (Motrin) with one blue (Aleve) at pretty much every control (14, I think) and start of every day (4). Sounds like a lot when you add 'em up.

Wished I had something stronger for the last day or two.

Dale
The running joke in my group was...Lon Norder
Oct 21, 2003 3:35 PM
The reason they have PBP every FOUR years is because it takes three and a half years to forget how painful it was.

Yeah, I liked the cheap beer and wine at the controles. Hard to get a buzz, though. I think my body burned up the alcohol before it reached my brain.

I was a bit shocked at the first controle (Mortagne) to find lots of people bellied up to the bar drinking beer and wine at 4 AM, only 5 or 6 hours into the ride. The guy sitting next to me there drank a wine-bottle-sized hard cider with his breakfast.
I wished I had something stronger.. first day!cyclopathic
Oct 21, 2003 4:31 PM
I was stupid enough to blow knees in first 200km by riding with lead group and then hanging on to tandem pacing at 25-30mph for 2hr more then I should have.

After I got Lodeac ~12am (5am start) I had considered DNFing. Then I slept on floor in cafeteria, borrowed leg warmers, got on bike and rode the rest w/o getting out of the saddle.

I had borrowed Advil, VItamin I, Alive from everyone I met who could share.
Hmmm. I notice he did the 2003 Spring Death Valley DoublePseuZQ
Oct 21, 2003 1:10 PM
Calling his doped time "a minor disaster" at 14:41. I came in at 16:23 and had the time of my life. I have mixed feelings about this. Sure, it's not a race, it's totally supposed to be a fun thing, but knowing that there was a guy on that ride doing this kinda pisses me off.

What would happen if he tried his experiment on the FC508?

(PS -- Has this been ciculated to the randon and ultra lists?)
I'm pissed, too . . .ms
Oct 21, 2003 1:28 PM
I tried the Spring 2003 DVD and realized at Scotty's Castle that I did not have 200 miles in me, so I turned around and returned to Furance Creek for 130 miles. I had a great time, but I still am disappointed that I could not do the 200 miles. I live on the East Coast (I was in California for the weekend because my wife had a conference there). I spent many hours on the indoor trainer in January and February to prepare for the ride when there was too much snow on the ground for me to ride outside. I even did a "trainer century" -- six hours on the trainer with only two 10 minute breaks at the two and four hour marks. I am proud of my preparation. But, maybe some human growth hormone and EPO would have allowed me to spend less time on the trainer and to have completed the 200 miles, too. The guy is a cheater and he should not be allowed to claim that he completed the DVD or P-B-P. To finish both events is an accomplishment. For him to claim to have finished is a fraud and an affront to those who have finished legitimately.
I made a mistake...PseuZQ
Oct 21, 2003 1:46 PM
Reading further into the article it says he later discovered that he was only injecting vitamin B12 prior to the DVD.

The guy still bugs me though. May he regularly get his *ss handed to him by my homeboys in their 60s and 70s.
Stand by my final conclusion . . .ms
Oct 21, 2003 2:02 PM
My DVD rant is not relevant in light of your correction. BUT, he still is a fraud insofar as P-B-P is concerned. Given how pissed I felt when I thought that he had done the DVD, a minor event compared to P-B-P, I can only imagine how pissed I would have felt had I prepared for and done P-B-P and then found out about this guy's antics. Anyone know of a way that he can be stripped of his P-B-P finish?
Why so harsh...Xeo
Oct 21, 2003 3:15 PM
I both read the article and listened to the interview posted on the board, and to me his experience was more an attmept to shed some interesting light on the state of performance enhancing drugs than to post personal best times or compete against athletes in competition. The fact that he chose organized events such as the DVD or the PBP to benchmark his progress should not be an issue.

In fact in the article he states clearly that to his knowledge PBP was not so much a race against a human opponent but a race against yourself and the elements. There was no prize money involved and he felt his involvement would not detract from the event. Learning from this board that he was in violation of the rules by entering doped ercks me a little but I still think his research was valuable and his error might have been caused by ignorance of the rules.

Would those that feel he is an idiot and or should not have entered those events fell differently if he decided to do a 700 mile test ride instead? I don't know, but his conclusions and data for me are what is important.

I say give him a break, hopefully his article, interview and subsequent media attention will shed light on the problem facing regulation and testing of professional athletes and to tell you the truth I don't care if the guy makes a few bucks from this. Remember he was willing for six months to compromise his body, which could have done harm, and he will have to live with that.

Ride on,

~Marc
and here's the herocyclopathic
Oct 21, 2003 4:51 PM
and the article, repost from below
What, you couldn't wait for podium boy Friday? ;-) (nm)PseuZQ
Oct 21, 2003 9:44 PM