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Saddle positioning(6 posts)

Saddle positioningPsychler
Sep 9, 2003 6:39 PM
I find that with my new frame, I was sliding to the back of the seat to get comfortable/ confident. This is where I felt most "balanced"...On decents I moved to the back/ sometimes "really" far back (a la mtb decending position). I had the seat set at the ole KOPS setup....but tonight I disregarded the whole thing and shoved the seat back about 1-1.5cm...Result, felt very stable, more confident and much less twitchy. I did not feel the "need" to move back on the saddle...I was already there...SO, what is the "drawback" to having your seat placement further back than the tradional KOPS? Physically I felt fine, climbed nicely...powered when I had to well...BUT, as a born neurotic, I want to get it RIGHT!...
measuring error or stem length....C-40
Sep 9, 2003 7:08 PM
First of all, there is nothing right about KOP. It's just a starting point. I've always placed my knee behind the pedal spindle to increase the ability to apply torque.

There are two posibilities. One is that measuring KOP is not easy to do accurately and despite best efforts to repeat the setting, a few minutes on the bike tells you that the setting is not the same as you used to use. I have the same problem just changing brands of saddles.

The other possibility is that you did not duplicate the same total reach and adjusted the saddle to correct a reach problem. Most folks can't move the saddle back 1.5cm without changing to a shorter stem.
I've had the same....tirider
Sep 9, 2003 8:43 PM
... epiphany regarding saddle placement. I've always felt more comfortable with the saddle placed lower and further back than most people fitting bikes suggest. On my most recent bike (custom), http://gallery.consumerreview.com/roadbike/gallery/files/Seven4068.asp
I had it designed around my preference for this and am thrilled with the result. What I've done is shorten the front/center distance (TT length) on this particular frame to keep the cockpit similar in dimension to my preference. Historically, when I've slid the saddle forward in the traditional KOPS position, I've felt a loss of power, and an increase in discomfort with any saddle. The theoretical drawback with saddle set back is that a higher cadence could be compromised, but I haven't had that be the case. The gains when climbing are quite remarkable. I should note that I do have long femurs which probably helps this setup work so well for me. I've found that moving the seat back and down effectively lengthens the reach to the bars. What happens, coincidently, is that I assume more of a crouching position (angle between hips and back closed) which allows me to reach out farther. Picture standing somewhat upright and watching how far you can stretch your arms out. Then bend at the knees and crouch and watch your arms extend. On a stock bike, perhaps, a shorter stem may be needed, but not to the extent one would think. Using this method also creates the balance over the bike that KOPS never quite accomplished for me. One last comment: While, I haven't worried about KOPS in some time, I'll bet my knee isn't too radically far behind the spindle, since I move the saddle down a bit as I move it back when finding that sweet spot.
Moved my saddle 1cm back from KOPMr Nick
Sep 9, 2003 10:25 PM
Now I am much more balanced, and it has taken weight off my hands so overall I am much more comfortable. I have not noticed a decrease in my spin, but it wasn't very fast in the first place. I have noticed more torque and the increased ability to flatten my back and get more aero.

Here are some articles about KOP and fitting.

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm
(must page down on this article to get to the part about KOP)

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/kops.html

These will tell you why you like your new position and why you are completely justified in riding with your seat set back.
Forget about right.MR_GRUMPY
Sep 10, 2003 5:14 AM
Whatever feel right to you, is right.
Could it be that your saddle was too low to start with? nmMShaw
Sep 10, 2003 9:51 AM