|Why is Armstrong such a pompous A#$ ?||northcoast|
Sep 4, 2003 8:25 PM
|I was just watching the OLN wrap up of the most defining moments of the tour. They were interviewing Armstrong between clips of the stages. After watching and listening to his comments, all I can say is this guy really needs to have his head examined.
1 When referring to the crash of Beloki, he said not one thing regarding Beloki and hoping he was all right and feeling bad for him. He said he did not know it was as bad as it turned out (covering his back for the criticism of why he did not stop to help or check on a fellow cyclist). Who does he think he's kidding? The crash happened right in front of his face and he didn't see how bad it was??? His eyes sure lit up and he had a smile on his face when he got to describe how he so expertly cut across the field to rejoin the race. I can believe not a single word of at least "I hope he will be ok" for a fellow competitor. He did say it was bad because it hurt Postal and made their job harder. What a guy.
2 He says he rode 5 hours with his brake on. Yeah right!!!! An expert cyclist would not know he had his brake on??? If in fact is was touching how does he know it was 5 hours if he couldn't tell it was on in the first place? For all he knows it was 20 minutes or 1 minute... Doesn't he have the best mechanics in the world? I'm sure the bike didn't leave the starting line like that as he says. Why isn't he capable of saying Mayo had a great stage? He has to use a stupid lame excuse like a little boy.
3 Last but not least, after the cycling press commends Ulrich for waiting for him after Armstrong crashed.Armstrong disagrees. He says he is not convinced that Ulrich actually waited..WTF ??? If he didn't wait.then how the hell did Armstrong catch him in a matter of a couple minutes. The whole group sat up and waited.
I hope all our young kids grow up with Mr. Armstrong as a great role model. Totally ungracious, not one bit humble, a bad loser and completely uncaring for his fellow competitors. That is exactly the opposite of what people should learn in competitive sports. Anyone want to buy my Trek cheap?
|re: Why is Armstrong such a pompous A#$ ?||S-U-B|
Sep 4, 2003 9:04 PM
|I'm not here to defend Armstrong, and I do agree somewhat with the brake comment. I know I have had a brakes rub on occasion and it's fairly obvious because you can hear it. I'm not so sure you could hear it when you have a pack of 100 riders, in fact I'm sure you couldn't so I could see how this could happen. As far as the Beloki crash, I think the situation was completely different. Vinokourov was ahead on his own, and Lance was probably told on his radio shortly after getting back on the road the Beloki was done, it was obvious that he wad done within 5 seconds of the crash. The Team director has a TV in his car and I'm sure quickly informed Lance to go ahead, not that you can wait when there is only a couple k left to the finish line. That would be comparable to someone crashing in the last 5k on a flat stage with a pack sprint and Lance pulling over to wait, you just can't in that situation.
Lastly, if you watch the replay of the crash you can see that Ullrich does indeed keep his head down and continue to hammer on out of the picture, he only slows up a little later but he definately does not slow up right away.
I do agree that Lance can say things from time to time that sound a little arrogant but you have to put it into perspective. He is the best cyclist in the world, he probably has a pretty strong belief in his abilities and I'm sure it's hard to hide that at all times.
Sep 5, 2003 3:29 AM
|Ullrich (and others) only slowed after much coaxing from TH.|
|re: Why is Armstrong such a pompous A#$ ?||rwbadley|
Sep 4, 2003 9:46 PM
|Without touching on the rest of it, this I would like to address:
"I hope all our young kids grow up with Mr. Armstrong as a great role model. Totally ungracious, not one bit humble, a bad loser and completely uncaring for his fellow competitors."
One of the reasons I don't care for watching most televised US sports is the "ungracious, not one bit humble, bad loser, etc" displayed.
Check out Monday night football for all the gracious conduct you can stomach. Any kids watching that one? This also includes but not limited to the Olympics, the one event you would expect to see the most sportsmanlike conduct. I am sometimes embarrassed that our (US)team should show all the afflictions you describe. I am struck by the display of our heavily supported youth acting in this manner opposite the sometimes obviously poorer nations' squads, whose only real downfall may be lack of funds to persue the sport at the level attained by the advantaged teams. Chants of US supporters "We're number one" ringing through a stadium of the host country seem to be the moral equivalent of Bush's "Bring 'em on" statement... a hollow tone indeed. Please note I am not anti US at all, I'm just following your train to a logical conclusion, which I happen to agree with.
This type of behavior has been building since long before Lance A. I think him to be of very high character, tho' still a flawed human like the rest of us. I would not hesitate to present him to our youth as a role model, and as an example of perseverance and sportsmanlike conduct.
If not Lance, then who's left?
|Northcoast, you don't have a clue.||Canidraftyou|
Sep 4, 2003 10:49 PM
|You dont even have a clue. If you spent anytime in the Tour section of roadbikereview you could of responded to maybe the largest post of the season reference to Lance/Jan.
Ulrich for the record, did not wait until Tyler held everyone back...Fact! Why the h@ll would Tyler charge up front and "YELL" if everyone was waiting on Lance??? The camera shows Jan "HAMMERING" seconds after Lance crashed, Jan even looked back.
I would make an offer on the cheap Trek, but knowing that it came from you, the maintance on the bike im sure is way over due!!!
"Study the game before you comment." (Me)
|The point is he did wait||northcoast|
Sep 5, 2003 10:12 PM
|How long was the time that Tyler came up to the group... 30 secs, 1 minute? The point is he did wait. Just as Armstrong didn't know what happened to Biloki (yeah right), Do you think Jan would have known what happened to Armstrong? For all he knew it looked like a super slow speed crash and Armstrong would be back up on his bike very quickly. When he did find out it was more serious he slowed.....
So what is it I don't understand....that you're the kind of fan so obsessed that you'd even like to wear Lance's underwear if you had the chance???
He's a Jerk and every time he opens his mouth he proves it even more.
And yes I did participate in the Tour discussion area. I was just making a comment on what he said on tv the other night.
|Strongly agree ...||Crash|
Sep 6, 2003 7:57 AM
|You can also see from the replay that Jan is zig-zagging from side to side on the road looking back as he sits up on his bike. No he didn't STOP, but he did ease off the pace and give Lance a better chance to catch the group. I laugh when I see people give credit to Tyler for stopping the group. I love Tyler, but he was already well off the back of the group when the crash occurred and if the group had not slowed down he would have never caught them. As soon as the pace picked back up he immediately popped off the back. This isn't just my opinion, Phil and Paul said the same thing when the stage was live and on the OLN wrap-up show when Lance stated Jan didn't slow down Phil and Paul were looking at him in disbelief. When I saw the wrap-up show Lance looked like him and his gigantic ego were trying to do damage control to explain why the Tour was so close. When you take away the difference in the team TT Lance is only around 20 seconds ahead of Jan. When you look at the difference in the teams between Postal and Bianchi you could easily draw the conclusion that the strongest / best rider did not win this year. Just my opinion.|
|I dont wear LA underwear...funny stuff!||Canidraftyou|
Sep 7, 2003 10:57 PM
|Point taken and u r wrong! Its ok...I feel the pain. LA fan, maybe! Wear his underwear...NOT!
Is he a jerk for speaking out how he seen it...H@ll No! He has a right to speak out, I know that I would and I am.
I did not refer to the Beloki crash. Lance and the whole pack was rolling!!! Lance lost a huge amount of momentum with Beloki crashing FACT! When taking the field LA did not gain any time on anyone FACT! Only a fellow Once rider stopped, because he had time to prep and slow down FACT! If you watched the race, they was flying down hill FACT! You cant just stop while hammering down hill without having warning FACT! The only choice LA had during Beloki crash was hit Beloki or go left, when taking left of the crash he (LA) only had one choice the field FACT! If LA would of gone right of the crash he himself would of crashed because of the momentum FACT! When LA got back on the road Tyler and others were still cranking...Beloki was out of the race at this point FACT! You still dont have a clue.
Where the H@LL is Jan for a statement? I have not seen any print on Jan reference to the LA crash! I did however see Jan's face and the power being applied to the legs as Jan was hammering up the hill FACT from my observation!
My point is just that, you dont have a clue...FACT!
|*****TROLL ALERT!***** n/t||spankdoggie|
Sep 4, 2003 10:58 PM
|What year & model Trek and how cheap?? nm||TNSquared|
Sep 5, 2003 4:05 AM
|I disagree because..||wielerpret|
Sep 5, 2003 4:10 AM
|..pro cycling is a pretty stressful business and riders deserve some leniancy. Expectations are enormous and the media are keen to leap on any little mistake. I have always found Armstrong to be a fine and gracious sportsman, although it would be nice if we could see him more often during the year.
Once he waited for Jan climbing out of a ravine after missing a turn, and I think he realizes that history won't forgive him an attack when the opponent has some bad luck. Beating him fair and square, by the way, is much more satisfying.
'Riding with the brakes on' I construe as a figurative expression. One doesn't go at 100% because of team tactics or saving strength. This is how I know it is said in the BeNeLux region anyway. Perhaps he took the expression from Europeans.
So don't fret too much over him o.k?
Luke. Amsterdam. www.iwaarden.com
|You have all the answers don't you.||Zman|
Sep 5, 2003 4:47 AM
|When I saw the accident I never dreamed that Belocki had broke his leg, I myself have been in accidents that looked much worse and have walked away.
I, just like Lance, am a total loser. I did a mountainbike race in 2001 and was having a real rough day, I could not figure it out, I was prepared and ready. When I finished the race, which I had won, I checked out my bike and found that my rear rotor was touching the brake pads and that the wheel would not even go around without a lot of pressure.
Look at Ullrich, has his cadence changed, was he not still in the lead, did he look like like he was working. If he had already slowed down then why did Tyler Hamilton need to tell him to slow down?
Why did Armstrong catch up so fast, he was a raging Texan at that point! Also, just prior to the crash you can clearly see that he was putting his move on the entire group. He was launching an attack.
Maybe you should get off your high horse and try to do what he is doing.
I consider Lance a great role model and give him the praise that he has earned. He is not perfect like you but does a very good job at what he does.
Sep 5, 2003 5:30 AM
|I agree with your assessments. But really, in front of the camera LA came off less gracious and less humble this year than in previous years - it appeared to me as a symptom of insecurity. I don't remember him being nearly as prideful in the past. And it simply didn't play as well to me.|
|Ullrich (for the last time)||Fez|
Sep 5, 2003 5:59 AM
|Lance said he was attacking just prior to the fall. They were hauling a55 up that hill.
Ullrich continued on, but did not go at full steam. That is waiting up, isn't it? He doesn't have to slow to a crawl, does he? After all, it was a steep hill and any rider, especially Ullrich, would want to keep some momentum up a steep hill.
Lance and Mayo and Ullrich were on a breakaway prior to the fall. Ullrich kept pedaling, but definitely slowed up. You could see him look back a bunch of times and I imagine he was listening for instruction from his team car. How else could Tyler and a bunch of others catch up if Ullrich didn't ease up a little?
Frankly, it doesn't matter. Ullrich didn't have to slow - after all, the yellow jersey was being contested here - unlike years ago when Lance had a 5 minute lead over Jan.
The camera caught Tyler at a very sportsmanlike moment and Lance wanted to give some more positive attention to his friend and former teammate. Lance just appeared to be an a55 in the process, but who cares? Lance is Lance.
|I have to defend LA||cyclopathic|
Sep 5, 2003 6:15 AM
|yes what you're saying is absolutely right. Ulrich waited, and it was obvious if you watched the stage dynamics. However, if you just take one segment "Ulrich pedaling up the hill", it is not that obvious.
LA had seen it only in coverage, and if he watched just a segment he could have made this mistake. LA: "You know I am not convinced Ulrich waited.." yes it doesn't look convincing on tape.
What I have problem with LA should have realized the impact of his words in public interview which he knew will be televised over and over. The guy needs to learn to keep his mouth shut to avoid insulting sympathetic to him people. It is total disgrace.
|I think this is funny..||Zman|
Sep 5, 2003 6:43 AM
|LA is clearly not a public speaker, I think this forum is beating a dead horse on the issue. But whatever.
I really did think that it was sad though that NO ONE, NOT ANYBODY, made a comment about the header that Mayo took. He went down very hard and the entire crew took no notice of it.
|Mayo and Basso...||Fez|
Sep 5, 2003 6:55 AM
|I think it was those 2 who must have driven Jan nuts that day.
They knew Lance had taken off and Jan had to work hard to minimize time lost to Lance that day. So they both sat behind Jan and let him do all the work. And then they planned to beat him at the finish so Jan wouldn't get a time bonus.
Jan barely beat one of them at the finish to get the 3rd place time bonus.
|One quick point:||OldEdScott|
Sep 5, 2003 7:19 AM
|It's obvious that portion of the interview (matter of fact, ALL the segments I saw) is severely edited. We have no idea whether Lance went on to say "But other people tell me he waited, and I believe them." For that matter, we have no idea if he said some sappy things about 'hoping he's OK' re: Beloki either. People are leaping to assume all kinds of things based on CLEARLY edited, excerpted comments.
I do think the 'stuck brake' story is kind of lame, though. No editing in the world can change that.
|if jan hadn't slowed, how did tyler catch back up to him?||rufus|
Sep 5, 2003 12:24 PM
|you mean tyler attacked while armstrong was down? shame on him.|
|re: Why is Armstrong such a pompous A#$ ?||Fatnslow|
Sep 5, 2003 5:36 AM
|Not a pompous a$$, just an ultra-intense competitor.
Look at anyone who has ever won the tour multiple times, I don't think any one of them acts like what you'd call a "down to earth regular Joe." It takes a certain amount of confidence in your abilities to win an event like the Tour, that confidence can be interpreted as arrognace.
I can only hope my kids look up to someone like Armstrong.
|I'd buy your Trek, but ...||pmf1|
Sep 5, 2003 5:43 AM
|its got that "T" word on it.
I gotta admit, I was pretty skeptical of the claim he made that he lost 15 lbs (or however much it was) in the first individual time trial as an explanation of why he didn't win.
I hope Jan trounces him next year.
|He's always been like that.||MXL02|
Sep 5, 2003 6:08 AM
|I know lots of people who competed against LA in Texas before he hit the big time, and he's always been cocky, arrogant, and highly competitive. His brush with mortality may have mellowed him a bit, but's let's face it...these personality characteristics are the same ones that give him the drive to be the champion he is. Many top athletes have the same flaws: Jack Nicklaus, Barry Bonds, Deion Sanders, Carl Lewis...it's the insecurity that drives them to greatness. It's this same behavior that ruins their lives outside of sport...case in point: Jake Lamotta, (Raging Bull), now certainly pertinent in view of LA's impending divorce.
I'm not condoning this behavior, only explaining my view on it.
|he's just being a Texan||daCaT_|
Sep 5, 2003 6:09 AM
|He even admits to being "difficult" in his book.
As for sportsman like behavior I can only think of that olympic short track ice skater (with the soul patch facial hair) as someone I would want kids to look up to.
|re: Why is Armstrong such a pompous A#$ ?||The Badger|
Sep 5, 2003 7:09 AM
|Regarding your first point, I totally disagree with your statement. You want Lance to stop and turn around uphill to see if Beloki is OK? Are you kidding me? Why didn't the other guys in the group stop (besides his teammate)? They were in a much better position than Lance. Lance did all he could to avoid crashing himself and at the time was concerned just trying to surviving. After transversing the wheat field, he is lucky enough to find himself back on the road with the chasing group. I'm sure Lance doesn't know how bad Beloki is hurt...the crash happens in two seconds.|
|Get a LIFE!!!||roadeeforlife|
Sep 5, 2003 7:23 AM
|re: Why is Armstrong such a pompous A#$ ?/ ROLE MODELS||mtnb1kr|
Sep 5, 2003 7:57 AM
|Well this thread has had a lot of views and I may be a little late commenting, but, what this boils down to is Lance being a role model. Is he? Yeah, for cancer patients all over the world and cyclists also. If you want inspiration about being the best you can be at what you do and overcoming insermountable odds to do it. Name someone better. As far as being the best person you can be it may be questionable. I think Charles Barkley was right when he said "I'm not a role model for your kids, I throw a round ball through a hoop." Is this excactly true? No, their celebrity gives them certain responsabilty as a public figure others look up to and they should be aware of their actions, But we as the adoring public usually hold them to a high and sometimes impossible standard. If you are worried how your kids will turn out by watching Mr. Armstrong and want to blame him or any public role model about it, maybe your not quit the role model you should be. Myself, I beleive Lance is a good role model as is Kurt Warner in the NFL or any of dozens of athletes who have overcome tremendous odds stacked against them and persevered. Are they perfect? No, but then neither are you if you can't rise above throwing stones at them.|
|Suffer the pain of TdF then have a microphone stuck in your face||Continental|
Sep 5, 2003 8:18 AM
|Lance and the other athletes endure pain that you and I can't imagine for several hours day after day . They get off their bikes and have microphones stuck in their face. Then we all expect rational, polite, insightful answers on the spot. Months later people pick apart every word uttered and make it a measure of the charactor of the man. It's pure unadulterated stupidity.|
|do you have anything bad to say about Tylor?||cyclopathic|
Sep 5, 2003 10:36 AM
|then talk about pain.
Tylor is clearly the nice guy in the way LA wanna be.
|I don't know Tylor or Lance.||Continental|
Sep 5, 2003 11:06 AM
|I don't think it's right to label one guy as an @sshole and the other one as a "clearly nice guy" based on the way they conduct post race interviews. O.J. Simpson gave great interviews and seemed really nice. Woody Hayes was an ill-tempered prick with the media. O.J. is a murder. Woody quietly performed community services without recognition until the day he died.|
|The comments were made in the OLN wrap-up show||Crash|
Sep 5, 2003 11:27 AM
|The comments were made in the OLN wrap-up show that was filmed several days after the Tour finished. I agree with your point about comments that are made during, or right after, the heat of battle. But these were made much later. That's why I was surprised that Lance made some of the comments he did and came across like that. For what it's worth my wife speaks french and in a recent issue of the Paris Match magazine Lance really rips his mechanic a new one for the problem he had with his rear brake.|| |