|At least campagnolo doesn't make fishing gear!! :-)||Synchronicity|
Aug 24, 2003 6:25 PM
|And to think that I was actually contemplating getting shimano on my second bike! HA. When I told my mum I was thinking about getting another bike, even she said: "Knowing you, you'll probably get bloody-well campagnolo!"|
|re: At least campagnolo doesn't make fishing gear!! :-)||lemmy999|
Aug 24, 2003 6:48 PM
|It seams that nobody choose Campy becuase it is better, only because it is cooler. I couldn't care what else a company makes. If Tampax made good quality for the price components, that is what would be on my bike.|
|That's because Campyophile trolls don't fish... they just brag..||russw19|
Aug 24, 2003 7:41 PM
|Do we really need to have another go round of the whole Campy vs. Shimano debate? I bet over half of the people trying to argue any one particular side aren't qualified to make the arguement. And before you go thinking I am all arrogant, the way you would qualify to make the arguement is if you actually do own and ride both, therefore making the arguement a percieved one, instead of just a speculative one.
BTW, I own 7 bikes.. Shimano has the edge 4 to 3, but on my road bikes, Campy is up 3 to 2.
|Your agument is weak, Russ||djkellycx|
Aug 24, 2003 11:53 PM
|Who are you comparing Shimano to in your "non" road category? What category is that even? Only 2 categories count, MTB and Road. Campy(i've owned both in the last year) wins on the road because is feels more substantial and mechanical. The use of metal instead of plastic in the top groups is what makes Campy is a big plus, though i'm not gonna argue that people buy Record on looks mostly (I think 80/20 is being generous).BTW these are the SAME reasons Shimano beats others in MTB! use of metals instead of plastic, and a solid mechanical feel.Also XTR,like RECORD, benefits mostly from its dark grey stealth looks,though it is actually better and different than XT, where as RECORD is just lighter that Chourus,not better(same thing,just carbon and Ti are used where aluminum and steel are used).I'm sure if Campy had another shot at MTB they would field some pretty tight sh!t. Thats good BTW.......|
Aug 25, 2003 6:56 AM
|Just so you know, Carbon Fibre (or Fiber) in a finished application is PLASTIC. Campy offers plastic levers, derailleurs, seatposts, cranks and headset top caps in the Record line. Have you measured by weight or volume how much metal is in each grouppo?|
|And you can't read...||russw19|
Aug 25, 2003 6:39 PM
|I never tried to compare the two.. although I do own groups from both companies.. I never said which was better, only that I own 7 bikes.. 3 or those bikes are Campy bikes. All 3 of those are road bikes. And just so you know.. there are plenty of other catagories of bikes.. try hybrids, comfort bikes, recumbents... there is much more to cycling than road and mountain bikes. That said, I only own road or mountain bikes (I do have a commuter bike, but it's a Dura-Ace road bike.)
Of the other 4 bikes I have that are not Campy, 2 are road bikes, (both Dura-Ace) and two are mountain bikes (both XTR) and I never tried to offer up a subjective opinion as to which I feel is the better bike. So by that, yes, my arguement was weak... so weak because there was no arguement in there. Man, this is a perfect example of why I hate this particular arguement, some people can't even see a post related to it without jumping in on someone who they percieve to be wrong because they don't share their opinions.
But I do want to make one point without trying to argue which is a better group. Your point that you try to make about how Campy has a more mechanical feel, and that being a valid reason why it it better is complete utter nonsense and a bunch of BS!
Shimano, from the introduction of index shifting in 1986 has always pushed the "Light Action" philosophy of their shifting. From indexed downtube shifters to STI, they have always strived for light, clean, precise, effortless shifting. If you feel that Campy has a more "mechanical" feel to it, then Shimano obviously has done what they set out to do. They designed a shifter that doesn't feel like you shifted it. It is so smooth that you say it doesn't "feel mechanical" and use that as an arguement against Shimano. It shows you really don't understand the difference in philosophy between these two companies. Shimano wants their bikes to shift smooth as silk... and it does when set up right... whereas Campy doesn't put this as a premium, and you can tell by that mechanical feel.
As to which is better, well if I thought you were really a person who I could intellegently debate this with, without your emotions and predispositions getting in the way, I might, but you seem to have your mind made up and even went so far as to argue that I was wrong when I never even offered up my opinion as to which was better. That's the funniest part about your post... I never said which I liked better, but according to you, my arguement for it was weak.
I want to answer one of your questions, then ask you one of my own. First, I never compared Shimano to anyone in my "non-road catagory" I simply stated that I have 7 bikes, 5 are road bikes, of those 5, 3 are Campy, 2 are Shimano. I said no more than that. Anything else is you drawing conclusions out of thin air.
Speaking of you drawing conclusions out of thin air, if carbon is plastic and Campy uses a lot of Carbon in their top group, and Shimano uses a lot of Aluminium (which is metal) then how is it that Campy uses more metal in it's top group? The shift levers and inner shift body of a record shifter are Carbon, not metal like Dura-Ace. How can you make such a BS blanket statement and expect it to be taken seriously?
I could go on and on about this for a while, but it's obvious it will do you no good.
Aug 25, 2003 8:49 PM
|Nah I didn't mean to start anything. Just thought some people might not be aware of the fishing link with shimano.
I can understand that people prefer "light-action" over campagnolo's "clunkier" shifts. I prefer to know when I shift gears. When it is successful & how many shifts. I've found with shimano it is so light, sometimes you're not absolutely sure if you've changed gear! Is that a good thing? Who knows.
Also now is the carbon vs aluminium thing for each side.
This is why I think I'm going to try something completely different & get Miche components on my next bike.
|And you ramble....||djkellycx|
Aug 25, 2003 9:44 PM
|Hey Russ, since you can't make it short I will. Road and MTB matter most,period. When this stupid argument comes up people are not arguing what works best on their recumbent Russ, I think you know that.I also think I made mention that Record uses Carbon and TI where Chorus uses...Oh sorry, I almost went off on a Russ. Before you and your 10 bikes, before you ever came up with "Campyphiles who like to brag" and before your dissertation on "1986 and the history of Light Action Shifting as seen by Russ" the reviews of both groups praised both but Campy has always been praised for a more solid feel. Shimano uses lot of plastic,Campy not nearly as much. I really don't care though Russ. I just thought it was pathetic to slam someone as a "Campyphile Braggert" and then throw out that YOU have 12 bikes,10 which are made of gold, and the other 4 are strictly bottom of the barrel, Campy equipped. No doubt Chourus or better Russ, nothing less for a guy with a big mouth and 17 bicycles. Lets arm wrestle...|
|Hey moron, why not make it even shorter....||russw19|
Aug 26, 2003 12:59 AM
|This arguement is really only road bike related. Campy doesn't make a mountain bike group anymore. If you have a Campy mountain bike group, I would hope you would be smart enough to put that heavy, poor shifting gem of a group in a box and save it. It is worth collecting, but not worth riding.
This discussion really comes down to Dura-Ace vs. Record. I don't really think anyone cares if Ultegra is better than Daytona, nor if Euclid was better than Deore XT with thumbshifters.
So do you own either a Record or Dura-Ace bike? Can you really argue one or the other is better? Or are you just spouting off and trolling? That's my guess. Because if you really did know both of these groups, you would know that each is better than the other in certain aspects and wouldn't try to argue which is actually "better" but which you like more.
I really feel bad that you only have one bike and it is Shimano RSX equipped, but keep on mowing your neighbor's lawns and maybe once you move out of mommy and daddy's house you can get yourself a real bike and join the discussion with better material than "Campy wins because it feels more substantial and mechanical." Did you read that in Bicycle Guide?
|Now you are slamming people who know how to read?!?!||djkellycx|
Aug 26, 2003 5:10 PM
|Russ, Russ... Its been fun but I have a feeling I'm arguing with the "STAR WARS KID".... Russ on a serious note take care you are a cyclist no matter what your bikes are made of and you have made me laugh, so God bless on the trails or the road wherever you may be.
ps. I get all my bike info from "MAXIM", doesnt everybody?
|they just make a handy corkscrew to pull out those eyeballs. nm||divve|
Aug 25, 2003 1:07 AM