|Is it wrong to put Shimano on an Italian frame?||Bulldozer|
Aug 21, 2003 9:21 AM
|The obvious answer is, of course not. However, the frame that I have my heart set on is a Cinelli Starship. It's absolutely gorgeous. Campy is fitting for this kind of bike. However, all things considered, I prefer Shimano components. Plus, I could buy 105 in black and make the bike look that much better, IMO. My conscience is torn between slight personal preference and the "mojo" of the bike. Both are important to me. What do you think?|
|I think it doesn't matter,||TJeanloz|
Aug 21, 2003 9:27 AM
|Mapei used to ride Dura-Ace equipped Colnagos. That ended any misconceptions I had about Italian frames rejecting Japanese parts.|
|and look where Mapei is now...||collinsc|
Aug 21, 2003 9:30 AM
|Rabobank is next.|
|It is like serving chianti out of a sake bottle; you cant. (nm)||onespeed|
Aug 21, 2003 9:27 AM
|My Colnago & Fondriest have ultegra nm||african|
Aug 21, 2003 11:35 AM
|yes it is wrong||collinsc|
Aug 21, 2003 9:29 AM
|but you cant help what you like. do whatever you want to do with your bike, dont let my disdain persuade you otherwise.|
|re: Is it wrong to put Shimano on an Italian frame?||firstrax|
Aug 21, 2003 9:29 AM
|I have black 105 on one of my bikes. Its good looking stuff. If you prefer Shimano use it. It would be wrong to use campy just to gain acceptance from the elitists. |
It is a little perverted though.
|Theres nothing wrong with it||Sprint-Nick|
Aug 21, 2003 9:29 AM
|My 2 cents is if you care what components go on a frame other than what looks good then you have far too much time on your hands that should be spent riding.
|Go with what you like...||Gregory Taylor|
Aug 21, 2003 9:31 AM
|If you prefer the Shimano stuff, go for it. The Starship is a beautiful bike, and not so screamingly "traditional" and Italian that it will mojo-impaired if non-Campy components are bolted onto it.
Now if it were a Cinelli SuperCorsa, in red with the polished lugs, it would be a crime not to bolt up some Campy, preferably with friction shifters and toe clips. You would be consigned to a hell where you were trapped for eternity in an Olive Garden restaurant and served only warm Pironi beer if Shimano even touched that frameset. There ARE rules about these things.
|not wrong for Boogerd||Sao|
Aug 21, 2003 9:33 AM
Frame: Colnago C40 HP
Fork: Colnago Star
Drivetrain: Shimano Dura-Ace 10-Speed with Shimano Dura-Ace cranks
Wheels: F.I.R. Speedlight
Stem: ITM Four
|Can you say "sacrilege"?||The Walrus|
Aug 21, 2003 11:10 AM
|Those cranks would be
on anything that doesn't have "Huffy" emblazoned on the frame...
Aug 21, 2003 12:39 PM
|I agree that the cranks are pretty ugly.
What color is that supposed to be anyway? Primer grey??
|But they do seem to color coordinate with the chain. nm||MikeBiker|
Aug 21, 2003 2:20 PM
|Argghhh!! Someone get me a Crank Extractor ---STAT!!||Synchronicity|
Aug 21, 2003 11:15 PM
|That crank on that bike is hideous. Just Bloody Hideous. Eeeeeeevil.
About the cinelli starship, it is a beautiful frame, and although I'm a campy man, I have to say if you can't afford the black carbon record stuff, then you might just have to go with black 105.
I'm all for colour coordination. Although an all-italian bike may suit die-hard italian fans that relish old steel tubing or whatever, those sort of people tend not to think for themselves.
Seriously, it is silly just to buy italian components when you don't like them as much. YES I AGREE with the other post: get one of those integralter stems. The bike cries out for it. Put a few other BLACK italian parts on it; ITM, TTT, Deda or cinelli.
That'll make up for everything!
|not just wrong, it's an abomination||terry b|
Aug 21, 2003 9:43 AM
|nothing from Italy should be saddled with Shimano.
technical reasons - none.
performance reasons - none.
aesthetic reasons - too many to count.
mojo reasons - you're messing with fate.
all this boils down to "do whatever makes you happy." I'd never do it, because I couldn't sleep at night if I did. You however might be more flexible. Get your stuff, build your bike and enjoy it.
|Do what you want to do||pmf1|
Aug 21, 2003 9:44 AM
|Its just a bike. There is no mojo. Its just some aluminium pipes welded together. If you like Shimano, then put Shimano on it. Where it was made makes no difference whatsoever. Why is Campy fitting on this bike any more than any other bike?
Anyone who tells you otherwise is just some snobwho buys into the "my components are better than your components" argument. Its your bike. You're the one riding it. What goes on it is your decision.
|You'll make Tullio roll over in his grave (nm)||AFred|
Aug 21, 2003 9:50 AM
|No because...||Mike Prince|
Aug 21, 2003 9:54 AM
|All of the Italian comes out of the frame when they replace the steel with aluminum and the lugs with TIG welds....
Kind of like the thought that all of the craftsmanship, mojo and aura comes out of Record when they start making it out of plastic...umm, I mean carbon...
|Just built a Colnago Dream Plus w/ Dura-Ace...||shrEd|
Aug 21, 2003 9:56 AM
|...and love it! So there...
I was used to working w/ Shimano, had the tools already and had a budget to consider. All in all, I love the bike and have no regreats actually...
Here's the breakdown for my ride:
Frame/Stem/Post/Bars/Seat: Italian (Colnago,ITM,ITM,ITM and Sell Italia)
Wheelset: French (Mavic)
Group: Japan (Shimano)
Pedals: USA (SpeedPlay)
The way I look at it, I'm like the friggin' UN out there on the roads...
Just for the record, I did have the same angst about this as you...
|I love the bastard..||spluti|
Aug 21, 2003 11:12 AM
|I powder coated my Columbus SLX Colnago. Other than that it's just like yours right down to the Speedplays! I'll hammer on it for 30,000 miles too. I could care less what the aesthetics are. This bike rocks.|
|re: Is it wrong to put Shimano on an Italian frame?||Bulldozer|
Aug 21, 2003 9:58 AM
|Forgot to add a pic of the frame.|
Aug 21, 2003 11:16 AM
|It would look great with black CF Campy components.
Do what you want. Ruin it with Japanese components if you want. But that frame CRIES OUT for Campy.
...just kidding...if you prefer shimano, go for it. The black 105 would look great.
|What I think is that conscience has nothing to do with it.||djg|
Aug 21, 2003 9:58 AM
|Or at least that it shouldn't.
|The real mismatch is...||jjparkusa|
Aug 21, 2003 10:01 AM
|105 on a starship frame. Lower end components on a high end frame.|
|Don't worry, the frame and components won't know the difference. (nm)||lemmy999|
Aug 21, 2003 10:03 AM
|not wrong, from a purely technical view, but||rufus|
Aug 21, 2003 10:04 AM
|spiritually and philosophically, it's just not right.|
|Bianchi didn't think so when they spec'd Ultegra on my Alloro, but||Straightblock|
Aug 21, 2003 10:17 AM
|maybe that's why the frame cracked. Was it rejecting a non-compatible component?|
Aug 21, 2003 10:41 AM
|I put Shimano on an Italian frame and took it back to Italy to ride there. I was not struck by lightning. In fact, Italians dig Shimano.|
Aug 21, 2003 10:46 AM
|I was also looking into this frame and was wondering if you knew a shop/website that had one around. I can't seem to find too much about them. Although, I did read on another message board (yes, I was unfaithful) that there were problems with Cinelli frames cracking- do you know anything about this? Or know anyone who has a Starship? No one seems to be riding one.
Aug 21, 2003 11:25 AM
|I've not heard anything about their frames cracking more than usual. I've been trying to find feedback on all of their frames too to find out about them as a whole. Nothing out of the ordinary there. Specific to the Starship, I did find this quote from wisecyclebuys.com
"The Cinelli Starship frameset features the most technologically advanced alloy tubing available, Columbus AL 6000 Starship. The Cinelli Starship has 20% more fatigue strength than any other alloy frame. The Starship features CNC wishbone rear stay and rear drop-outs."
And another from another site
"Columbus Starship tubing is thin walled, triple-butted 6000 series aluminum that is triple-heat treated for maximum performance and durability. The frame has a unique CNC-machined seat-stay cluster design which results in a solid seatpost/frame interface, and a look and feel that you won't get with any other bike. This was the first frameset to be heat treated after welding, which ensures that the critical area near the weld retains it's structural integrity. In short, it's a one of a kind, sexy frame that provides top notch performance."
Of course, this is just marketing stuff but it's something... I don't think you'll find too many people riding the Starship because 1) it's on the expensive side and 2) their aren't a lot of them imported to the US.
|gvhbikes.com||JS Haiku Shop|
Aug 21, 2003 11:38 AM
|I was also droooooling over the XL. however, if i bring home another bike from coos bay, oregon, there may be a divorce.|
Aug 21, 2003 11:50 AM
|Back off the XL. IT'S MINE!!!!!!!!!!
I'm laying down the $200 now to make it mine...some day. I've got 6 months to pay it off.
|Speaking of layaway||geeker|
Aug 21, 2003 1:12 PM
|Not a Cinelli, but I put down $200 on this last week:|
|beautiful . . . you will love your Pegoretti. nm||bill|
Aug 21, 2003 1:36 PM
|Speaking of layaway||Bulldozer|
Aug 21, 2003 2:02 PM
|Does that say "Great Goooooglee Moooooglee"? That's fargin hilarious!!!|
|It's from a Frank Zappa song. Dario Pegoretti has this thing||bill|
Aug 21, 2003 2:41 PM
|for American music. The CCKMP or whatever the hell it is also comes from an American song by Steve Earle, although I can't remember exactly what it means.|
|cocaine cannot kill my pain. nm||rufus|
Aug 21, 2003 3:58 PM
|Shoyu on Spaghetti??? ....LOL (nm)||flying|
Aug 21, 2003 11:04 AM
|Italian Bikes should have Italian parts||bimini|
Aug 21, 2003 11:24 AM
|But Of Course, all road bikes should have Italian parts:)
But,What's the world coming to! I see that most of the new Italian factory bikes have Shimano parts.
For Mojo Reasons go Campy. If you like Shimano go Shimano.
Of course, what do I know, I have an asian bike with campy stuff on it.
|And all USA frames should have USA parts....||lemmy999|
Aug 22, 2003 4:55 AM
|where can I buy USA parts?|
|only thing required on that starship is cinelli alter stem (nm)||JS Haiku Shop|
Aug 21, 2003 11:35 AM
|campy v shimano **gaping yawn**|
|Gaping yawn, indeed. They were on the same side in WW2 nm||dzrider|
Aug 21, 2003 12:02 PM
|Not only Shimano... but 105! *gasp*||JFR|
Aug 21, 2003 11:36 AM
|You should be ashamed to even think of it.
Individuality is underated these days. Ride what you like. Wear what you like. Dispell old myths. Start new trends.
Also, IMO, mojo comes from the bond a bike and it's rider have. If you do things to your bike out of love and respect, and to make it perform well, the bond grows. Putting 105 on your Cinelli because YOU like the way Shimano works, YOU like the way the 105 group looks, and YOU will be proud to have a bike that reflects your personal perferances and individuality... then your bike mojo will be strong.
But don't let me come accross too supportive of your 105 proposal. I support individual thinking and the self confidence to do what you belive in; personally, I'm a Campy man :)
|If an Itallian pro on an Itallian team can do it, so can you.||Dropped|
Aug 21, 2003 12:10 PM
|If an Itallian pro rider on an Itallian team can ride an Itallian frame with Shimano, as many do, it's probably socially acceptable for you to do it too. If you still feel shame, take all that money you save by not having to buy those pricey Campy cassettes a few times a year and get therapy. ;)|
|If an Itallian pro on an Itallian team can do it, so can you.||Bulldozer|
Aug 21, 2003 12:32 PM
|The hole in that logic is that when you're sponsored by XYZ company, you ride XYZ components. Show me what's on their "personal" bike and I'll go for it. Therapy here I come!|
|If you have to ask, you don't deserve to know the answer. Which||bill|
Aug 21, 2003 12:25 PM
|is, of course it's wrong. It's way wrong. It's way wrong for all manner of truths and complexities that, obviously, are beyond your ken.
So, ride what you like.
Aug 21, 2003 12:44 PM
|...if it is considered equally abominable to put Campy components on a Fuji frame?
|it is considered equally abominable to HAVE a Fuji frame.||bill|
Aug 21, 2003 1:13 PM
|I don't make the rules, I just know them.|
Aug 21, 2003 6:04 PM
|You might get ticketed by the fashion police, but lightening will not strike you if you mix Italian frames and Japanese components. You have to decide what's important for you. There are lots of potential reasons to pick Shimano: Does Shimano fit you better? (riders with smaller hands may prefer Shimano). Are you more comfortable/familiar with using Shimano components? Do you like the black on black aesthetic statement that 105 components would make along with the Starship frame? (Have to admit, it would look pretty cool). Don't have the spare cash for all those pieces of carbon fibre Record kit?
For a while I had Dura Ace clipless pedals on my 1973 Colnago Super. LIked the ride, but always felt that the pedals didn't go with the rest of the bike: old steel lugged frame, Nuevo Record components, Cinelli handerbars, etc. When I replaced it with a Colnago MXL, I built the MXL up with Record components rather than go with Dura Ace. I freely admit that a good part of the decision was an aesthetic one, but I don't feel that I have to defend what is ultimately a personal choice.
Do what you like and enjoy what should be a great bike.
Aug 21, 2003 10:27 PM
|Just picked this up, comments welcome. I *had* to go for the Campy vs. Shimano route, mainly because I've always wanted a
Record-equipped ride. But just get what you want. Like the man said, happiness is wanting what you have, not having what you want.
By the way, this thing rides exactly like I hoped it would - all of the stiffness and feedback of stiff aluminum frames like CAADx, but with a very supple feel, and perfect handling.
Record 10, Newton OS 44cm bars with Newton 10cm stem. Pedals will soon be replaced with CX-6, Impact Mag, or X-2 - any suggestions ?