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cross-training question (weights etc.) for you fitness geeks(7 posts)

cross-training question (weights etc.) for you fitness geeksJS Haiku Shop
Aug 13, 2003 12:18 PM
since rumors of Arnold running for office surfaced, i decided to start working out again (JK). so, i've been running (treadmill) and lifting weights for the last four weeks, the first gym sessions since january.

just this week i can tell a (sudden, big) difference in climbing; note that we only have "short" hills 'round here. nothing more than 2-3 minute climbs on most rides, if that. feels like i have more resources in my upper body when honking out of the saddle, and i'm able to go a bit longer without sucking air through a straw, and with more power overall. i've not noticed it in any other phase of the ride, but i don't really use my upper body that much on the flats.

here's what i've been doing:

running 2x per week, 30-40 minutes each session, recently (in the last 7 days) including some speed work and intervals--all treadmill.

lifting 1x-2x per week, depending upon how much pain i'm experiencing yet from the last session. 4-5 sets to failure of bench press, military press, lat pull-downs, and seated rows with cables & plates (all aforementioned on machines, seated rows with cable & plates), followed by some dumbell work (no smartass comments please). on everything but the bench press, i'm doing high reps--10 to 14. on the bench, 6-8 reps max, and i'm 200% worthless afterwards. i'm guessing all this stuff is directly applicable to riding, which is why i'm trying to maximize my time in the gym on related stuff.

here's the quandary:

for the first 2 weeks, i was in horrible (specific) pain for 4-6 days after working out. two weeks into this schedule, i started using whey protein after gym work, running, or hard rides. now i'm sore for 2 days only, then not really sore anymore. and...i'm not pushing easier, i'm going consistently harder, and with bigger weight.

is this the body again getting accustomed to lifting a little? or is it they whey? or both?

and, how frequently can i continue to workout without hindering progress? if i feel "not sore" just a couple days after working out, is it ok to work the same muscle groups again that soon?

also, what other cycling-specific exercises are recommended, not including leg work? i realize a strong core is important, but my IQ is still too high to do ab work just yet.

thanks in advance.

-J
Sounds like lots of sets of lots of reps to me.dzrider
Aug 13, 2003 12:55 PM
It's hard to evaluate without knowing how much weight you're pushing relative to your max, but you seldom come across as a guy who's at ease with moderation.

My rule of thumb when returning to the gym is to warm up (abs and ballistic stretches) for 10 minutes, work out for 40 minutes, and cool down (abs & ballistic stretches) for 10 minutes. I wouldn't be able to complete the workout you described in 40 minutes. As I get comfortable I add more time. Just like running and riding.
re: cross-training question (weights etc.) for you fitness geeksnaptown
Aug 13, 2003 1:28 PM
The pain you are experiencing is Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness. You should feel this to a varying degree after each muscle building type workout. Although I would suggest that 4-6 days is too long. Make sure that you are stretching well for the next couple of days after lifts and drinking plenty of water.

Right now you are in the recruitment phase. You are actually just getting the muscles used to the exercises. Your body is now being able to recruit more muscle fiber units per lift with each training. This is where the "extra strength" comes in. You won't actually build mass for a few more weeks.

The pain is the microscopic tearing of the muscle fibers, which your body rebuilds stronger. If you felt 4-6 days worth of pain, you probably overdid it. For the first couple of weeks back into any training regimin, you need to give your system time to adjust. You wouldn't just go charge up the Alps after having taken 6 months off of the bike would you?

I am not a guru so I would try to give you cycling specific work, although your program seems to be just working on the upper body (you are working your legs too, right?) I mean you don't want to be one of those guys at the gym with the huge chest and arms, with skinnier legs. I would suggest some back hyperextentions, first without weight then with. This will help with lower back issues during rides. And everyone should do abs, one of the groups you can do every day!
my experience...KSC
Aug 13, 2003 1:32 PM
From a purely empirical perspective (no medical expertise):

>is this the body again getting accustomed to lifting a >little? or is it they whey? or both?

I'd bet 99% getting accustomed to lifting, unless perhaps you're a vegetarian, then maybe a little more credit to the protein. I've jumped in w/ and w/out trying to change the diet without noticing much difference. The body simply needs time to adapt to the new demands and I think that's the variable exerting the main influence. Give it a few more months and you'll probably have a tough time getting any soreness.

>and, how frequently can i continue to workout without >hindering progress? if i feel "not sore" just a couple >days after working out, is it ok to work the same muscle >groups again that soon?

I think so, but don't sue me if you hurt yourself. I read as a general rule allow about a 2 day rest on a muscle group unless you're a body building type.

>also, what other cycling-specific exercises are >recommended, not including leg work? i realize a strong >core is important, but my IQ is still too high to do ab >work just yet.

dunno, I thought you were supposed to allow the rest of your body to waste away. Maybe lower back, but then your IQ may be too high for that too.
re: cross-training question (weights etc.) for you fitness geeks270bullet
Aug 13, 2003 2:07 PM
Your routine looks fine. Have you lifted regularly before and then just laid off for awhile?

One of the causes of soreness - besides delayed onset - is the tendons adapting to new work loads. As you build strength, the connective tissue in the muscle becomes stronger.

One way to get a complete body workout in 3X week training is to superset opposing muscle groups. Here is a simple routine that takes about 45 minutes to 1 hour if you add legs.

Bench Press (or Inlcine bench) with
Lat pulldown

Military press with
Seated Row

Dumb-bell lateral raises (shoulders)
Dumb-bell or machine back flys (aka rear delt flys)

Barbell curls with
French Curls (aka nose breakers)

Cable curls with
Tricep pressdown

Leg extension with
leg curl

Tri-set:
Abductors to Adductors to Calf Raises

Finish with a pyramid set of squats (use a smith machine for safety)

I try to do 3 to 4 sets of each exercise at between 8-10 reps. Go directly from the first exercise to the second, then rest for about 1 - 2 minutes.

Just a little somethin, somthin to think about.
Very similar to my upper body routinedzrider
Aug 14, 2003 5:10 AM
Bench press - seated rows or equivalent machine

Dips - upright rows

Military press - behind the neck pull downs

preacher curls - french presses

alternate arm curls on incline - cable pull downs

raises, flys, and pullovers until my time is up.

I find the supersets help minimize joint and tendon pain when I get back to the gym, especially if I'm good about making my movements as long as possible in each direction.
thanks, all...a few answersJS Haiku Shop
Aug 14, 2003 5:34 AM
yes, i've done a regular routine before, but typically in the dark months. i've started the last 3 years in october/november and worked weekly or bi-weekly through february or march. i'm starting now as i'd like to get in a little better shape for 'cross season, plus i'm gettin into my 30s and realize some weight-bearing work is required. i have used running and stairclimbing over the last 3 winters as a cardio supplement as well.

thanks again, all. will modify the program to use supersets as suggested (did also last third of last winter) to maximize time/effort, and will squeeze 2-3 sessions in per week.

-J (no gurly man!)