|How well would Saturn do against D1 Euro teams?||Spiderman|
Aug 6, 2003 12:05 PM
|I'll admit that i only follow the pro peloton and not do very much racing so it is a little difficult to judge on personal perspective. But, seeing as how Saturn has more or less dominated the US racing scene this year, how would they rank among Euro div. 1 teams, or even div. 2 teams?
I know they went over there in the spring but didn't hear much about them. For example, how would have Tom Danielson (barring his inexperience compared to the other wise men of the peloton) done in Liege-Bastone-Liege (spellcheck?) or Horner in Milan-San Remo?
Just curious, I think it would interesting to see the top US (other than USPS, am i missing other teams?) team take on some of the top Euro teams.
|They would get waxed,||TJeanloz|
Aug 6, 2003 12:23 PM
|With a few exceptions, the top guys on the domestic scene would get beat up pretty badly against a Tour-caliber field. Chris Horner rode for FdJ for a couple of seasons and didn't do anything noteworthy.
Against a division 2 line-up, they'd have a chance, and they do compete on that basis at, say the Tour de Lankawai (Which Saturn has historically done pretty well at), but those races tend to be a huge deal for Saturn and a minor one for the Euro-teams.
|Which teams are considered "Euro" teams?||Kristin|
Aug 6, 2003 12:40 PM
|I know that's a wide open question that probably can't be answered in one post. (Sort of like asking what a first down is...) But I'm curious.
I see Saturn at a lot of US crits along with the USPS and its not as if the USPS is guaranteed to win. Sometimes they win, but sometimes Saturn wins. Last year 7-Up won in Downers Grove; but Ventura was there. So what makes the USPS a "Euro" team and Saturn not? Is it just the because of who is on the team? Are the teams devided into any kind of categories?
Aug 6, 2003 1:15 PM
|There are three divisions in UCI "professional" cycling, aptly named Division 1, Division 2, and Division 3.
Division 1 has 30 teams, and all, except for USPS, are based in Europe. They range in talent from Fassa Bortolo to Palmans-Collstrop; ranked as the sum of their riders' accrued UCI points. Riders get more points for winning bigger races, so the teams with the best results will get the highest rankings.
Division 2 has 27 teams, which includes 1 U.S. team - Navigators, and 26 European teams.
Division 3 has a lot of teams. I have no idea how many, but probably around 80. The real difference between 2 and 3 is that division 2 teams must put up a bank note equal to 6 months of rider salary to assure that their riders will be paid. This gets them the right to race a certain number of better UCI races. Saturn is one of the best division 3 teams, but that's a long way off from Division 1.
USPS would be virtually guaranteed to win Downers Grove if they sent anything resembling their best team. With Robbie Venture and Ken Labbe (both great domestic riders), they aren't going to dominate.
|Great explaination. Thank you. nm||Kristin|
Aug 6, 2003 1:18 PM
|They would get waxed,||Spiderman|
Aug 6, 2003 12:43 PM
|Again, just out of curiousity, what makes you say that? Is it the training they are used to (euro races tend to have more mileage etc) or is just that those racers with incredible levels of talent will gravitate towards the elite of the elite? In other words, are guys like horner, nothstein (on the road, he is world class on the track), Nathan o'neill etc just not good enough?|
|Just not good enough,||TJeanloz|
Aug 6, 2003 1:16 PM
|Horner won everything in the U.S. in, I believe, 1996 - the next year he won nothing in Europe. Vaughters is sort of the same story. They just are not at the same level.|
|They would get waxed, yup||yeah right|
Aug 6, 2003 12:59 PM
|Navigators does a little euro work and does okay, but they focus on that in the spring, and once again not against D I fields. Not to insult any of the US based riders, but if they had what it takes, chances are they'd be racing D I or D II in europe. Some guys that would be marginal in europe (horner, vaughters etc.) choose to come to the US to enjoy being around their families, but I'm sure they're not making as much.
The US contingent of USPS isn't anything to write about, although Ventura et al do come up with a few wins and places, it's not the same as the Lance contingent.
Saturn is a very good D3 team, and there are several domestic riders who could jump to europe (Danielson comes to mind, Pate etc.), but on a whole the level is a lot lower. Even someone like our national champ, McCormick, placed fourth in the philly race, against a few D I and D II euroteams, I can't imagine him pulling off any major results in europe. Stefano Zanini doesn't win that much in europe either but won at philly, although he is a very good rider.
|Didn't a domestic team rider place 2nd in a spring race? (nm)||Uprwstsdr|
Aug 6, 2003 1:01 PM
|Henk Vogels in Ghent-Wevelgem, he's a longtime euro though.(nm)||latinist|
Aug 6, 2003 1:42 PM
|They will beat them scared!!!||alansutton|
Aug 6, 2003 12:55 PM
|I double assure you, the Euro team have no chance!|
|You're blessed with the timing of Seinfeld. (nm)||jesse1|
Aug 6, 2003 1:24 PM