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Aug 6, 2003 6:41 AM
Anyone know of a reason not to go with one of these two framebuilders for a classic steel ride? I think I have narrowed down my search for a custom bike builder to these two. They both have great web sites and have been very responsive to my questions.

Both have about same price for a TIG welded frame, anyone think Lugs are worth the 300 more in cost (I love lugs, but 300 is a lot).

Strongframe sells a Chorus group (with some Record) for 500 less than Waterford, is the waterford frame worth that much more than the Strongframe.

Anyone see a reason to not go with either? Thanks for your help. I live in japan and can't get much assistance except here.
Aug 6, 2003 7:11 AM
If you love lugs (as I do) there would be no reason to build your sweet steel ride without them. I'd spend the $300 in a New York minute.

As for the gruppo price, don't let that drive your decision. Can't you buy a frame only and then get your gruppo elsewhere?

No reason not to go with either of these.
What is the Strong frame made out of ???????...nmMR_GRUMPY
Aug 6, 2003 7:11 AM
Hard to go wrong with a Waterford.MB1
Aug 6, 2003 7:21 AM
I am probably going to replace my Rambouillet with a Waterford with the Stainless Steel lugs and pinstriping.

Part of the justification of getting a steel frame is that the frame is fairly easy to repair. That actually only works if it is a lugged frame. Ie: Get the lugs.
What happened to your Rambouillet?Ray Sachs
Aug 6, 2003 9:25 AM
Or did you just not like it that much? I really like mine, but not sure I'd like it as my main/only road bike. It's for a particular type of ride - I usually like something a bit quicker feeling.

He was in an accident & trashed it. nmLen J
Aug 6, 2003 10:00 AM
Alas, I loved it. It worked so very well for me.MB1
Aug 6, 2003 10:29 AM
Of course with my right leg in a brace and the front wheel of the bike hitting the down tube it is time for some rehab and a new bike.
Sorry to hear...Ray Sachs
Aug 7, 2003 4:00 AM
I was away from the computer for a while and I guess I missed that discussion.

Hope you recover well and quickly.

Strong inputwaynebo
Aug 6, 2003 7:31 AM
I have a 54cm (56 TT) Strong with Columbus foco and Wound Up fork, tig welded, cobalt blue. Excellent condition and it rides beautifully (stiff yet compliant). I weigh 150# and use Campy Shamals with Tufos at 140 psi. and the handling is razor sharp. If you don't mind used and the size is the same, I'll sell you mine (the frame is slightly too long in the TT for me) for a reasonable price, well below new and guaranteed. I would buy again because I have a better idea of my ideal frame geometry. Unfortunately, my Strong has a 74 degree STA and I like a more relaxed angle.
Hard to go wrong with a Strongterry b
Aug 6, 2003 7:32 AM
Actually, I have frames built by both. I've got a non-custom Gunnar from Waterford (their b-line) and a custom UltraFoco from Strong.

Both are great bikes, although the Strong is nicer in it's build (as you'd expect from a pure custom.) I've not had the pleasure of doing a custom from Waterford, but I've had them on my short list for a future bike for some time.

Carl is a great guy and builds a wonderful product. I'm sure the same is true of Richard Schwinn and his bikes. Either way it's a win for you.

In term of lugs, I think it really depends on how much you crave them. I also own one lugged steel frame and I love it, but it is heavier and personally I think TIG frames are just fine. If this is a lifetime investment for you, then $300 is cheap. However, I've never met a bike that was a lifetime investment so I'd probably pass. Just don't pass on the lugs and then lie awake wishing you had spent the extra.

The $500 difference in group might be a deal maker for you given where you're buying from. If you're limited by your location, and cannot build it yourself or get it done easily (I don't know Japan, but I'm guessing either would be more difficult than the States) you might consider that $500 less is the way to go. Although Waterfords are beautiful bikes, if your intention is to get the whole package, then I would say "no," Waterfords are not worht an additional $500 over a Strong.

In the end, either choice is going to be a wonderful specimen.
Is Waterford moving away from lugs?Chicago_Steve
Aug 6, 2003 8:19 AM
I've started to see a lot of the new welded Waterfords popping up in shops around Chicago. Then a quick search Waterford's website seems to hype their new R-33 frame which is welded with True Temper S3 tubing. I know Huron Bikes has a tie in with the the lugged Waterfords as well. Just trying to figure out where the company is going...

As for Strong vs. Waterford, if you prefer a more traditional looking bike Waterford doesn't get into the shaped tubing like Strong does. Of course companies like Waterford and Pegoretti will tell you that round tubing is the best option for bike mfrs ;-) Either way (Strong or Waterford) I doubt you'd make a bad decision with either company. It's kind of like choosing between Porsche or Ferrari!
Maybe the R-33geeker
Aug 6, 2003 8:39 AM
is made out of a superlight tubing for which TIG welding is preferred. Like the Deda EOM 16.5. IMO, they're just pushing their lightest bike model to customers who want light. Lugged bikes are probably Waterford's bread and butter; tough to imagine them de-emphasized.