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New Fondriest: Heavy as hell!(17 posts)

New Fondriest: Heavy as hell!CrazyMan
Jul 31, 2003 6:05 PM
So I tossed my recently acquired Fondriest Top Level on the scale tonight and was shocked at the readings.
The Frame weighs about 1580 grams for a size Large. This includes the headset, but still results in a not-so light bike.
Worse yet, I weighed the Mizuno all carbon fork which came out well above the 1 lb mark.
Fondriest lists the weights for these parts at hundreds of grams less!!!
I checked the scale and it is correct. My Look frame and fork came out just fine.
I am seriously considering returning the frameset, as it will certainly be of little use in building up a lightweight climber.
I know I'm being a bit nitpicky, but do I not have the right to purchase what I bargained for?
What should be my next course of action? Bought direct from P4 group, btw.
Thanks
re: New Fondriest: Heavy as hell!Walter
Jul 31, 2003 6:16 PM
I never really get behind weight weanyism but......

If you have literature with specific weights mentioned and you can prove that the literature is wrong to a considerable percentage of the listed weight you have a legitimate beef.
re: New Fondriest: Heavy as hell!filtersweep
Jul 31, 2003 7:07 PM
I ride a Look, and they tend to over-estimate weight... 1580 for a large frame with a headset? That isn't so bad... you are probably at about 3lbs for the bare frame. Everyone else seems to publish specs based on tiny frames- so what are you comparing it to? Put a bunch of featherweight parts on it and enjoy the RIDE. I don't think ultralight frames ride all that well anyway...

As for your fork, same story... have you cut it yet? If your fork is stiff, I wouldn't care about the weight.

I get your point about "false advertising"- but how many feathery climbers make comfortable descenders at 50+mph?

Finally, all those guys bragging about how light their bikes are... they are lying. The only people telling the truth are the ones complaining how heavy they are... (it is like income... the only ones telling the truth about how much money they are making are complaining about how bad they have it...).
re: New Fondriest: Heavy as hell!Sintesi
Jul 31, 2003 7:19 PM
What I find funny is the feel of weight. I know a pound lost has real measurable advantages on hills but when I go to a bike show and lift some of the top bikes I end up rather unimpressed. My bike is an estimated sub-20 pounder (never weighed it) and while I once thought it felt heavy to lift I no longer feel this way. The only time I was really impressed was lifting a Cannondale CAAD7 setup. That little brute was light!
silly if you ask me....C-40
Jul 31, 2003 7:25 PM
First subtract 100-120 grams for the headset, that gets you down to 1460, then consider you have a large size, not the size listed in the weight specification. That's probably worth at least another 100 grams, maybe more.

I'd also check your scale by some other method than weighing another frame. Your "calibration" is meaningless.

For what it's worth, I jumped on a digital scale and picked up my C-40 which has Campy Eurus wheels,Easton carbon bars and a Selle Italia SLK saddle and compared it to my Fondriest MDC with Kysriums, heavier Deda 215 bars, a heavier SDG saddle, and a heavier FSA triple crank. Both came up with the same total weight (151 pounds), within the scale's .5 pound accuracy. Even if the Fondiriest was a full .5 pound heavier, it would only be .3% (.5/151) which doesn't amount to squat.

Thre's a lot more to a good bike than a few ounces less weight. My Fondriest has been great so far. The ride and handling are outstanding. Wouldn't trade it for anything else that only costs $800.
I'm shocked, repeat shocked! MFGR weights untrue?terry b
Jul 31, 2003 8:27 PM
you're kidding right? It's a great frame, I have one and I love it to death. Give it a chance, you will too.
wooo, nice bike. I bet the weight disappears the first...rwbadley
Jul 31, 2003 9:09 PM
time you ride it. Don't worry about it. Lovely bike, fine ride. Are you worthy? heh heh joking.

Really nice comfy bikes for the ride may not always be flyweight. A good locomotive is what you got, appreciate it and don't worry about the 1/2 lb, it's all in your mind.

RW
I can empathize: post the weights on weightweenies boardBergMann
Jul 31, 2003 9:09 PM
post your measured weights with exact frame & fork size specs so others can make more informed decisions: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/

It is pretty much standard industry practice for mfrs. to list weights for a medium or small sized frameset. Fork weights will also generally be for smallest/shortest steerer model they make. This is indeed somewhat misleading, but then they can't print weight tables in every ad.

C-40 is right on (as usual) about how to estimate your way back down the size scale.
If I shelled out good money for a 2.1 lb frame and got a 3.1 lb frame, I'd be pissed too.

A half lb. weight variation across the size run, however, is to be expected. Longer tubes = more weight.

As for the fork, you're not going to save more than 20-40 grams cutting it down, so if it really is _hundreds_ of grams over the claimed weight, I'd be sending it back too.

There's plenty of lighter stuff out there that works just as well or better.
some points:CrazyMan
Jul 31, 2003 10:12 PM
my scale is properly calibrated, using other than another bike, of course.
The bottom line is:
Fork is listed at 365 gm uncut. It is over 100 grams heavier. That aint exactly a 2% issue. That's over 26%!
And even subtracting 110 gm for the Headset and 100 gm for the size, we are still 170 gm over the listed weight.
That means frame and fork are over 1/2 pound heavier. Ridiculous.
I still intend to build the bike, b/c I know it's fantastic, but will call P4 and express my disappointment.
some points:divve
Aug 1, 2003 12:05 AM
I can understand your disappointment. For the most parts it's all psychology however. 1/2 a pound of weight is about the equivalent of 1 cup of water. You drink/loose sweat more than that amount in 30 minutes going at a fast clip in summer weather. It's all very relative....but of course you spent the money and you should get exactly or very close to what you wanted and expected to receive.
about the fork...C-40
Aug 1, 2003 5:18 AM
Check the crown area and be sure that they didn't send you the cheaper fork (like I have). This fork has a carbon steerer, but an aluminum crown. The aluminum crown has some thin cast webs on the underside. A carbon crown would be totally smooth on the underside.

With all the obsessing over a few ounces, I hope your own body weight is extremely low. Otherwise, all this concern is really silly. Most scales won't even register body weight changes of less than .5 pound and body weight is exactly the same as frame weight.

It's generally far easier to drop a pound of body weight than a pound off the bike. For example, even though I currently weigh only 133, I know for sure that a real race weight would be more like 128-130. If I was serious about weight, like the pros, I'd shed the weight of an entire frame and fork and then worry more about the bike.
re: New Fondriest: Heavy as hell!aliensporebomb
Aug 1, 2003 3:17 AM
Weight is a weird thing - when my LBS sold me my bike,
one of the things they did before they let me roll it
out the door is one of the shop guys attached it to
their scale and weighed it for me and I saw the weight
for myself - something on the order of 17 pounds which
I thought was really light at the time.

And this was with all the reflectors still attached
to the bike too (has to be on there by law when a
bike is sold).

BUT....I'm thinking that after removing the wheel
reflectors and adding my bike computer we're talking
about close to 18 if not moreso but ultimately the
biggest performance change I'll see is if I drop ten
pounds myself.

I've dropped 18 pounds in weight since I bought the
bike and that has made a bigger difference than adding
or subtracting various weight-in-ounces-parts.
re: New Fondriest: Heavy as hell!wspokes
Aug 1, 2003 3:21 AM
I can see being ticked when you pay a bunch of money for a reported result and it just isn't there! at the same time, I am ever so thankful I don't race and don't worry about weight anymore. 3.5 pounds would be a delight for me probably...but until I can start affording these luxuries again (after the house is paid off). I will continue to not worry about weights.

Take into consideration, your frame is a large. Most manufacturers only weight the smaller sized bikes for the claimed weights...a few actually are honest and list the frame size they weighed. I am not a big fan of cannondale but I will give them credit for weighing 58cm framesets for some of the claimed weights. They also have an unbelievable amount of R&D product testing that assures safety.
The actual Fondriest website listsclimbo
Aug 1, 2003 4:45 AM
the Top Level at 1.2 kg for a 54cm frame. Your frame is bigger and includes the headset. So it should be heavier by atleast 200-300 gms. I don't see a problem, bike weights are never exact. Who's P4?
a lightweight climber.......??african
Aug 1, 2003 5:01 AM
you bought the wrong bike, that bike is not for climbing. Fondriest has the don racer which is a climbing bike, call P4 talk to them (you do have some legit beef, even if they do prove you to be wrong) and maybe get the don racer if you want a light bike. BTW, I have a Fondriest U107 SAT team Lampre TT bike and it friggen rocks, I have never weighed it, I don't care about the weight - I just love the bike. Good luck and let us know what happens.
I have a P4 Carbon - I thought it was heavy too, BUT...maurizio
Aug 1, 2003 10:14 AM
I recently bought the P4 carbon, which is listed at 1.05 kilos, at 54cm. I bought the 57cm, and thought the same thing that you did when I pulled it out of the box.
BUT, I can say that the craftsmanship of this thing is head and shoulders above the mass produced bikes.
I have no issues with pounding the hell out of this bike. It is the smoothest, most comfortable bike I have ever owned.
In the grand scheme of things, 1/2 pound is not that big of a deal. honestly. Work on the engine and the rest will follow.
You can have confidence that your 'light' bike is not going to shimmy at speed or need replacing after a small wreck or a year of riding.
Fondriest warranties thier bikes for 4 years. How many other top end frame makers do that? I can't think of one.
They may list it as 'lifetime,' but remember that its the lifetime of the bike, not your lifetime.
Any 1000 gram frame has a very limited life. Adding a bit more material here or there to make a frame warranty-able for 4 years is actually gives piece of mind.
Just look at Lance and his 'lightweight' Trek. That wreck that he had was not 'that' hard and he cracked his chainstay. Is that whay you want if someone runs into you on your saturday ride or your bike falls over and hits something just right?
You have a fine ride. Enjoy it.
Called P4...CrazyMan
Aug 1, 2003 4:27 PM
Spoke to P4 and they were great. Frame weight wasn't so much the issue as much as the fork weight, which was over 1/4 pound mislisted. Turns out they included the wrong fork with the frameset. I got the aluminum crowned version. They are shipping me the full carbon fork tomorrow. Isn't it nice when an easy solution is reached?