|Lance was just about to spill the beans ...||Elefantino|
Jul 31, 2003 4:33 PM
|on the OLN special ... he had talked about the hip, the shoes then said "and" ... and Phil cut him off with "you didn't win the prologue."
Baaah! I have never yelled "SHUT UP, PHIL!" before but darned if I just didn't. Lance was going to say something else!!! Any guesses as to what it is? We'll never know, thanks to Phil.
|Lance Doesn't think Ullrich would wait...||spockie|
Jul 31, 2003 7:12 PM
|I watched the OLN recap of the Tour, guys I really need your opinion on this next question. IN your humble and modest opinions, DID JAN ULLRICH WAIT FOR LANCE AFTER HIS FALL ON LUZ ARDIDEN? I think personally he did, but I want to know what u think.|
|What I think||Al1943|
Jul 31, 2003 7:24 PM
|I think it was more a case of not attacking while Lance was down. Jan continued, but at a reasonable rate. Lance caught up, matched speeds, then attacked, Jan couldn't stay with him.|
Jul 31, 2003 8:39 PM
|Anybody with a tape can see Jan has the same bike position and pedaling cadence before and after the crash. No attack, no sit-up. Look behind him, the riders are having to work to catch up to him. Only after Tyler came up did the group clearly sit-up. Maybe Tyler felt the Spaniards would attack unless he took control.
I think Jan had momentum and didn't want to completely sit up and have to start over.
Is Lance a d!ck for speaking out and "setting the record straight?"
I don't think so. If he really believes Jan didn't sit up 100%, and he sees the world's press is drumming up another "moment of incredible sportsmanship", he probably should set the record straight. He didn't accuse him of attacking, he just shifted the sportsmanship award to Tyler.
The statement will give the critics and the clueless a chance to flame him for it.
|agree with Spoiler (nm)||JS Haiku Shop|
Aug 1, 2003 5:37 AM
|I agree but I was surprised to hear him say it..||Dave Hickey|
Aug 1, 2003 6:23 AM
|I noticed Phil and Paul didn't say a word.....There was a few seconds of silence afterwords..|
|Lance Doesn't think Ullrich would wait...||tarwheel|
Aug 1, 2003 5:13 AM
|Lance was surprisingly open in his remarks. I tend to agree with him about Ullrich. Jan didn't attack after Lance crashed, but he didn't sit up either. The group in front didn't really slow down until Tyler said something to them. To his credit, I do think Ullrich deserves some credit for not attacking and heeding Tyler -- however, he might not have had the legs at that point for an all-out attack.|
|Lance Doesn't think Ullrich would wait...||James OCLV|
Aug 1, 2003 5:26 AM
|I think that Jan did slow up (watching the recap of the stage, you can see that he kept looking over his sholder), but not right away... I looks to me like he had to think about it a little bit before he actually slowed. In his shoes, it must have been a tough decision. When Lance slowed up and waited for him, Lance was already in the lead by 5 min. or so. When Lance crashed, he was only ahead by 15 seconds... I'm sure that the thought of not waiting occured to Ullrich, and the fact that he did wait is more testament to his sportsmanship.
I agree that even if Lance truly felt like Ullrich didn't wait, he shouldn't have said it publicly.
|what's funny is...||mohair_chair|
Aug 1, 2003 6:16 AM
|Lance had his face planted on the ground when the actions in question happened. All he has to go on is what he saw on TV, which is what WE all saw on TV. So he's entitled to his opinion just like any of us. He's no more right than you or I. Only Ullrich knows for sure.
My feeling is that Ullrich didn't know what to do, so initially he kept doing what he was doing. Then he slowed a bit and started looking back. He was probably trying to hear his DS tell him what was going on and what to do. He eventually let everyone catch up.
The look on Ullrich's face was near panic/shock from what had happened, so I'm not sure he was thinking all that clearly at the time. I'm pretty sure I would be the same way.
|So is this a rule?||Kristin|
Aug 1, 2003 8:54 AM
|I am reading between the lines here because I don't have OLN and have never watched a tour. Is there a rule or etiquette that requires other riders to "wait," if a crash occurs. Wait for what? For the leader of the race to get back on his bike and catch up so he can win? That seems a little contradictory. It is a race after all. Seems to me that this would be a perfect opportunity for any of the other team leaders to attack. Why wouldn't they? In a crit, if the leader crashes out don't the other teams take quick advantage of this? Why would such a rule exist?|
Aug 1, 2003 9:47 AM
|You don't have OLN and you've never watched a Tour??? Where is the Department of Homeland Security when we need them?
The rule, which is unwritten but understood, is that you don't take advantage of the misfortune of your rival. It's not considered sporting, and the stigma of winning a race because your rival, through no fault of his or her own crashed or got a flat, would stick with you your entire career. Your lack of fair play would be paid back somehow in the future, and more often than not, it's probably going to hurt.
Generally, if the race leader or top contender crashes or has a mechanical, you are supposed to wait for him to resolve it. That doesn't mean you necessarily have to wait for him to catch up with you, but you should at least wait for him to get back up and running. In the case of Lance and Ullrich, they were riding together when Lance went down, so the fair play thing to do is wait until you are all together again before you resume. If Ullrich had been out ahead on an attack, according to the rule, he would only have to cease his attack until Armstrong got moving again, then he could continue, but he doesn't have to wait for Lance to catch up. If he was 1K ahead, he gets to stay 1K ahead.
|I'm on the lamb||Kristin|
Aug 1, 2003 11:46 AM
|I was forced into hiding when the Dept. of Homeland Security (DOH'S!) came to my house in June. I've been living on Lower Wacker ever since. One of my neighbors found an old hand held radio in the trash and we were able to get daily updates on Armstrongs progress until the batteries died during stage 4. I'd like to watch OLN one day, but I am a lone voice, calling out into the darkness, "Cast off bad programming." Until Hollywood is mature enough to produce meaningful television and until cable companies will sell only productive stations like OLN and the Fishing channel, then I will be forced to boycott. It is my cross to bare.
Thanks for the explaination. The farthest I've ever been outside the US is Niagra Falls, therefore I have no concept of sportsmanship or fair play. The tour riders would never survive in the NFL, for lots and lots of reasons, fair play probably being the least of their worries.
|That was my take also||KenS|
Aug 1, 2003 10:55 AM
|It looked to me like Ullrich was trying to figure out what was going on with Armstrong and keep his position relative to the other riders.
Armstrong was very lucky that his machine wasn't damaged. When I saw the crash I thought Armstrong had damaged his bike and I wouldn't be surprised if Ullrich wasn't thinking the same thing.
How long could one expect those riders to wait for Armstrong?
|One possible way to find out...||Spoiler|
Aug 1, 2003 7:09 AM
|ask Tyler. But in a way, they did. Tyler was interviewed either after the stage or the day after and Frankie asked him about the incident.
Tyler just said you don't attack the yellow jersey in that situation. He didn't say they were attacking. It's unclear if he thought the situation needed correcting, or if he rode up to make sure the situation stayed neutralized.
If Lance wants to find out (I suspect he doesn't care as much as we do) he should ask Tyler how hard he had to ride to catch up to them. Lance was full of adrenaline and was being paced by Chechu, so he really couldn't judge how hard the group ahead was riding.
It is kind of cool to see Lance not just going through the motions in the show. He gives some standard responses, but he also gives some original and bold opinions. He lets us know what he really thinks.
That's Texas. Ask for an opinion, and don't complain when you get one.
|If you're Ullrich & LA falls next year, do you take off on him?||The Don|
Aug 1, 2003 8:29 AM
|Looked like Ullrich was indecisive to me, too. I also agree that Lance didn't need to "expose" Ullrich.
After what Lance said...if I'm Ullrich next year, and Lance falls, I say, "I'm going!"
|sports illustrated interview said....||bestT|
Jul 31, 2003 7:32 PM
|Lance said he had a gigantic, flaming saddle sore, which would explain why he spend so much time out of the saddle.|
|re: Lance was just about to spill the beans ...||upandcomer|
Jul 31, 2003 8:05 PM
It's Dave...How's the post Tour life treating ya!
Give me your email again, cause I lost it after the trip.
THat way I can send you all my pics.
Charlie sent a great one of me gary and him running beside Lance and the rest of USPS
|re: Lance was just about to spill the beans ...||Spiderman|
Aug 1, 2003 7:13 AM
|and why haven't you posted that picture yet upandcomer?|
Aug 1, 2003 8:03 AM
Things are great, although I was soooooo envious of Tom. He got to see all the drama (hopefully).
My e-mail is "email@example.com" or "firstname.lastname@example.org"
Send me the Charlie pic, too (also his e-mail) because I lost all the e-mails from the trip, too, and Geraldine didn't send them to me before she left for France.
Funny thing: My first ride back, when we came to our "big hill" (one of our bridges) that usually pops me, I flew up in the 42x17. Once you've done the Ventoux, everything else is a speed bump!
Let me know when you race again and how you did.
|re: Lance was just about to spill the beans ...||asgelle|
Jul 31, 2003 8:14 PM
|I don't think it was Phil interupting Armstrong as much as it was poor editing. Probably Armstrong didn't add anything important and the editor removed the rest of his answer but made it seem Liggett had interupted.|| |